anyway to make this game less rock paper scissors?

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Spider0ne

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Senior Member

11-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySoprano2013 View Post
mid lane hard counters are very hard
I'm not sure you understand what hard counters actually are. The closest thing to a hard counter in this game is Swain/Fiddle vs Vlad. Those, however, are still just soft counters. If you want hard counters, look at DotA. There are heroes who counter some heroes so hard they can't really do anything all game.


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Ozbirta

Senior Member

11-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider0ne View Post
I'm not sure you understand what hard counters actually are. The closest thing to a hard counter in this game is Swain/Fiddle vs Vlad. Those, however, are still just soft counters. If you want hard counters, look at DotA. There are heroes who counter some heroes so hard they can't really do anything all game.
quinn/vayne/teemo/ken vs melee with no gapclose top


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Spider0ne

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Senior Member

11-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbirta View Post
quinn/vayne/teemo/ken vs melee with no gapclose top
Quote:
...it's generally expected that you will lose the lane, so work with that. Get what CS you can, play safe, protect jungler and roam
Not really hard counters. They win lane, but the champion will most likely be able to do something to someone after laning phase. A hard counter would be something like Doom vs Invoker. At some point, Invoker can cast maybe one spell before Doom hits him and then hes got AA's with whatever set of orbs he has. He basically can't do anything at that point.


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TonySoprano2013

Senior Member

11-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider0ne View Post
I'm not sure you understand what hard counters actually are. The closest thing to a hard counter in this game is Swain/Fiddle vs Vlad. Those, however, are still just soft counters. If you want hard counters, look at DotA. There are heroes who counter some heroes so hard they can't really do anything all game.
that among many other reasons is why Dota2 is so inferior to league. call it what you want, you will lose lane and your teammates will rage


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Ozbirta

Senior Member

11-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider0ne View Post
Not really hard counters. They win lane, but the champion will most likely be able to do something to someone after laning phase. A hard counter would be something like Doom vs Invoker. At some point, Invoker can cast maybe one spell before Doom hits him and then hes got AA's with whatever set of orbs he has. He basically can't do anything at that point.
K I don't care much about dota in this thread (or forum)

Pointing out that there are crazy hard counterpicks in this game.

For example, a decent teemo will keep, say, a trundle, from farming at all, and behind by a few levels throughout laning, even picking up a kill or two if trundle tries too hard to get in exp range. I've been on the giving and receiving end, and a 3-0, 160cs lvl 13 teemo against a 0-3, 57 cs lvl 9 trundle is about as much of a hard counter as anything i can think of from dota. You don't come back from that.


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TonySoprano2013

Senior Member

11-26-2013

everytime i playt lissandra against fizz. i just push and kill him under tower and he becomes useless every game. and people say fizz is hard to counter.


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Halcione

Senior Member

11-26-2013

I hear not sucking works wonders.


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RiotWrekz

Champion Designer

11-26-2013
1 of 2 Riot Posts

If you are high in the pick order you would be well served by making a more strategic pick and playing a champion that is going to be relatively safe regardless of lane matchup. Jax is a good example of this in top, a lot of top laners can bully him before 6 and then the lane flips because he gains a lot of consistent power. Naturally this also depends on you playing the lane correctly when in an unfavorable matchup.

If you identify when the enemy laner is going to be getting the most out of their power you can plan the lane around engagements are specific level breaks and play defensively outside of those windows. Barring cases where two champions do not belong in a lane against each other the fundamental toolkit that identifies a champion belonging in X lane should give them the tools to interact with likely opponents in that lane.

Counters inside that context (mage vs mage) are minimal and can frequently be responded to by shifting playstyle and responding appropriately to being behind. Understanding you are behind and shifting to a defensive playstyle can even allow you to get back in the lane as the aggressive player will cause the lane to push and open opportunities for ganks.


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Daedalus871

Senior Member

11-26-2013

A well played Lux has no counters.


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Light LaserTower

Senior Member

11-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotWrekz View Post
If you are high in the pick order you would be well served by making a more strategic pick and playing a champion that is going to be relatively safe regardless of lane matchup. Jax is a good example of this in top, a lot of top laners can bully him before 6 and then the lane flips because he gains a lot of consistent power. Naturally this also depends on you playing the lane correctly when in an unfavorable matchup.

If you identify when the enemy laner is going to be getting the most out of their power you can plan the lane around engagements are specific level breaks and play defensively outside of those windows. Barring cases where two champions do not belong in a lane against each other the fundamental toolkit that identifies a champion belonging in X lane should give them the tools to interact with likely opponents in that lane.

Counters inside that context (mage vs mage) are minimal and can frequently be responded to by shifting playstyle and responding appropriately to being behind. Understanding you are behind and shifting to a defensive playstyle can even allow you to get back in the lane as the aggressive player will cause the lane to push and open opportunities for ganks.
Easier to read, that is all.


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