These "anti snowball" changes are really stupid.

First Riot Post
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Livingsword

Senior Member

11-25-2013

The new changes to increase support income should have been done the same way the balancing to them having more gold was done, in a targeted maner.

Only the supports that were literally balanced around the new gold items and gold mechanics should have had access to them, but balancing only them and making it so anyone can have them created this situation.

We are back to the Beta meta, where the team with the better late scaling champs pretty much won at champion select...


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Simon Plumaj

Junior Member

11-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
It IS a skillful play. It's not a coin flip. However, it was over-rewarded relative to other skillful play that occurred in games. It would be sortof like if you made the first shot made in basketball be worth 10 points instead of 2 -- still skill-based, but will tend to cause more random outcomes and reward the better team with a win less frequently. This has the same net affect on the frequency with which 'the best team wins' as adding a small coin flip test.

Does that make sense? By bringing this back in potency a bit, we preserve the potential for people to utilize the skill that DOES exist there without washing out other skillful actions... Bringing them into balance essentially.
Wouldn't this basketball analogy lend itself to the removal of first blood? After all, isn't the player who gets first blood already at an advantage, with no need for the extra gold that comes with it relative to other kills?


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Ntencti

Senior Member

11-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
If that's the case, it will show up loud and clear between feedback trends & win rates of champions involved. We will definitely look at this issue.

And we aren't done making changes. Lots to do still to work out the various kinks.
Im geussing multiple threads that have people talking about leaving the game and high elo players saying the same thing wasnt "loud and clear" enough?


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Tricky LeBlanc

Senior Member

11-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racism View Post
It doesn't matter if you go 5/0 in a lane because you outplayed the opponent.

All the enemy has to do is stall the game for dat passive gold.

Seriously, every game I've played since the preseason patches have all gone 40 + minutes because a team just stalls for passive gold and starts getting fed off of stalling.

In the last 3 games that I've lost, I've had 6 items and 5k+ gold and the game was dragged on to 45+ minutes. I literally couldn't do anything because passive gold + targon made it harder to 1v5 since the entire enemy team was slowly gaining gold, and I had to watch as my team played poorly and the enemy team catch up.


I know this was the point of the patch, but it seems ridiculous. It might actually create an elo hell because now every game is determined by how well your team plays, not just you.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next change was "Every time you die, you split the gold gained by the enemy", because death causes a "toxic" environment and doesn't highlight a player's strongpoints.

Uhhhh, so your problem is you can't 1v5 the enemy TEAM and carry your TEAM to victory?

I'm so ****ing happy for this patch, it stops the stupid **** like that. If you are ahead then you AND YOUR TEAM should be working together for the victory. Not "burr I got 5 kills and just sat top pushing my lane and we won because me".

The game is as it should be now, whichever TEAM has more TEAMWORK in this TEAMWORK oriented game will win.

If you lost after the enemy team stalled and got back up in gold and items then that's your TEAMS fault for not knowing how to close out a game.

TEAMWORK OP


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Simon Plumaj

Junior Member

11-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky LeBlanc View Post
Uhhhh, so your problem is you can't 1v5 the enemy TEAM and carry your TEAM to victory?

I'm so ****ing happy for this patch, it stops the stupid **** like that. If you are ahead then you AND YOUR TEAM should be working together for the victory. Not "burr I got 5 kills and just sat top pushing my lane and we won because me".

The game is as it should be now, whichever TEAM has more TEAMWORK in this TEAMWORK oriented game will win.

If you lost after the enemy team stalled and got back up in gold and items then that's your TEAMS fault for not knowing how to close out a game.

TEAMWORK OP
I think you make a fair point. The issue comes up in ranked. Everyone is given an individual ranking based on wins and losses. If no consideration was given to the individual, this would have to be changed to a system where only teams were given ratings, and not players. That would mean no more random queuing. Every team would have to be premade in ranked.


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Racism

Master Recruiter

11-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Plumaj View Post
I think you make a fair point. The issue comes up in ranked. Everyone is given an individual ranking based on wins and losses. If no consideration was given to the individual, this would have to be changed to a system where only teams were given ratings, and not players. That would mean no more random queuing. Every team would have to be premade in ranked.
I agree with this.

What's the point of having an individual ranking if it is based on how well your team performs?

Currently, elo is a system that determines how good of a player YOU are, not your team.

Why is my personal rating being judged solely on what my teammates do?


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Desperate Orphan

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Senior Member

11-25-2013

Did you guys see the "jungle changes" morello was talking about in addition to the targon nerf. Both are so lols and dont address the problems at all.

Riot clearly has no idea what its doing.

Quote:
Relic Shield
UNIQUE Passive - Spoils of War
Charge rate increased to 60 seconds from 30 (remains 30 seconds for Targon's Brace and Face of the Mountain)
Execute now only works on melee basic attacks
Fixed a bug where Zac's Cell Division bloblets could be executed

Hunter's Machete, Spirit Stone, and Madred's Razors
UNIQUE Passive - Maim
Health return on hit increased to 5 from 3

Wriggle's Lantern
Combine cost reduced to 150 gold from 300 (total cost 1650 from 1800)


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Rijda

Senior Member

11-25-2013

Quote:
because im not looking for 30 min of farming every game
The **** do you call ALL OF SEASON 3?


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Double Chex

Senior Member

11-25-2013

the wriggles lantern cost did either need to be lowered or offer some better stats as it was just a gamble to get it in games. Sometimes when the lanes are even or your lanes are winning or in extended laning phases you're allowed to farm the jungler more. Other games where your team is losing towers early, you have to either put more map pressure or lose the game before wriggles gold kicks in.

It looks like riot refuses to increase early jungle impact in the game and still promotes junglers to farm in the jungle for 20 minutes straight to make an impact late game. This passive farming with the jungle ai is just boring, not rich, or rewarding gameplay. I don't want to farm in the jungle 20 minutes straight to be able to carry the game.


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Morello

Lead Designer

11-25-2013
9 of 9 Riot Posts

We only really want anti-XP snowball in the long-term. We're watching this on the team-snowball level (team snowballing not good, personal is) but you need the ability to get an advantage that closes a game.

Average game time is up a bit - this is something we worry about too. I doubt everything is "right" in the world on this, but we need to dig into specific causes after today's hotfix.