These "anti snowball" changes are really stupid.

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PallasAthens

Senior Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devi Freak Mint View Post
Neither Snowballing or Rubberbanding feels fun.

Noone wants to see a 3 kill lead mean the game, especially not in the Worlds Final.

But at the same time, noone wants to see the first 20 minutes of the game negated by a single teamfight.
And yet, it should be skill that wins games, no? So if a good player gets those kills, they shouldn't be punished either BECAUSE they worked to get those kills by being rewarded with nothing. So if an extremely good player gets 3 kills, they should be able to carry much better than someone who didn't get kills.


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HeY x SeAn

Senior Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PallasAthens View Post
And yet, it should be skill that wins games, no? So if a good player gets those kills, they shouldn't be punished either BECAUSE they worked to get those kills by being rewarded with nothing. So if an extremely good player gets 3 kills, they should be able to carry much better than someone who didn't get kills.
nah that 0/10 nasus deserves his 500 stack 6 items regardless if he gets ****ted on ...


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LVNsNASmurf

Senior Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZerglingOne View Post
All this tells me is every team needs a pure DGAF tower diver like Mundo, Alistar, Leona, Volibear, Singed, Amumu, or Malphite.

What does this mean? Riot has finally introduced the true role of tank to the game.
I had amazing success in pushing down inhib turrets as an armour stacking Nasus. I know what you mean, because I've used a massive beast mode champion to successfully take down turrets when minions were too far away.

Without tank, it's teamfight, kill 3 of them for 1, then can't do anything, as the minions aren't at inhib turret, and you can't drive the lane there before respawns. Fight might as well not have happened. With tank, you just DGAF and get hit, take inhib turret, and start opening up base like that.


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Shoukansha Ichi

Senior Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Interesting name.

So, we can evaluate both of these very easily -- are games shorter, longer or the same, and are individuals as able, less able or just as able to carry. I think those are good questions. I'm pretty sure the core gameplay team is already evaluating it, but I'll make sure that it's on their mind, as those are the right questions to ask.

The TLDR is:
1) We like games to be in the 30-40 range. We don't want them to be longer than before. If they are becoming significantly longer, we'd make an adjustment.

2) Ideally, we want teams to snowball less... and individuals to snowball as much or more. Individual snowballing is fun, team snowballing is not. If we saw patterns contrary to this, we'd make adjustments.

3) This is fair criticism, and we will evaluate if it's broadly true and make adjustments if 'longer games' seem to be an outcome.
are you going to balance late game carries around games going that long? If that's the intended normal time then hyper carries like Nasus become too strong. You pretty much have to finish alot quicker then that (20-25) if you hope to not allow their carries to come back.


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Agaranlol

Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Sure, I mean, it's either true or it's not. If it's true, it's easy for us to work on it. We will check.
what do you mean "IF" its true? of course it's true, don't you guys test out your own damn game before you launch it? or do you make the players do that too considering you make us do tribunals too. the game is just awful right now. I just had a game where my team had 17 kills and the enemy team had 3, the game lasted until the 55 minute mark! thats just stupid. it would have been a 20 minute game if it was back in s3, now the game is skill less and boring, and if changes aren't made I'm going to quit.


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SirTimbo

Senior Member

11-24-2013

I, for one am enjoying the new changes. Makes games closer and allows you to recover from a bad lane. I have won many lanes just by allowing the guy who fell behind to farm the big ghost camp near blue to makeup for falling behind in xp. It made a huge difference and let him be meaningful instead of a speed bump in later fights.

The only downside to this is just how much harder it is to shut down heroes like Nasus, veigar and heimer dinger outside of picking their hard counters.


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Racism

Master Recruiter

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PallasAthens View Post
And yet, it should be skill that wins games, no? So if a good player gets those kills, they shouldn't be punished either BECAUSE they worked to get those kills by being rewarded with nothing. So if an extremely good player gets 3 kills, they should be able to carry much better than someone who didn't get kills.
The old system before had its flaws.

There were a lot of matchups, especially if you were counterpicked, where one kill would decide whether or not you were useful for the next 30 minutes or not.

There was a problem of snowballing in the previous patch, but the changes that were rolled out made it so that getting kills/killed in laning phase doesn't really mean anything at all.


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Racism

Master Recruiter

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTimbo View Post
I, for one am enjoying the new changes. Makes games closer and allows you to recover from a bad lane. I have won many lanes just by allowing the guy who fell behind to farm the big ghost camp near blue to makeup for falling behind in xp. It made a huge difference and let him be meaningful instead of a speed bump in later fights.

The only downside to this is just how much harder it is to shut down heroes like Nasus, veigar and heimer dinger outside of picking their hard counters.
How is this a good thing though?

I mean sure, from a side that is losing, being able to come back so easily is good, but imagine you're laning against someone and outplay them twice to get three kills over them, only to have them be able to do just as much as you in teamfights, regardless of whether or not you shut him down in lane.


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Esarius

Senior Member

11-24-2013

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Originally Posted by Racism View Post
I literally couldn't do anything because passive gold + targon made it harder to 1v5 since the entire enemy team was slowly gaining gold, and I had to watch as my team played poorly and the enemy team catch up.
Welcome to League of Legends. This has been going on since the game came out.

>Heehee, a plat complaining about his team


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Ralik098

Senior Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Interesting name.

So, we can evaluate both of these very easily -- are games shorter, longer or the same, and are individuals as able, less able or just as able to carry. I think those are good questions. I'm pretty sure the core gameplay team is already evaluating it, but I'll make sure that it's on their mind, as those are the right questions to ask.

The TLDR is:
1) We like games to be in the 30-40 range. We don't want them to be longer than before. If they are becoming significantly longer, we'd make an adjustment.

2) Ideally, we want teams to snowball less... and individuals to snowball as much or more. Individual snowballing is fun, team snowballing is not. If we saw patterns contrary to this, we'd make adjustments.

3) This is fair criticism, and we will evaluate if it's broadly true and make adjustments if 'longer games' seem to be an outcome.
This is pretty much the opposite of what has been said on the subject in the past. I've always heard complaints from Riot that top lane is too snowbally and you hate how the lane plays because of that, even going so far as to make sure that some champions are intentionally weak because of it. I don't understand this comment at all.