1 Challenger + 5 Golds + 3 Platinums + 1 Silver

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Ntencti

Senior Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Yes, that's a premade duo of high elo + low elo averages out to 'pretty good' elo. Gold and plat together are logical besides that... so it's just the diamond and silver guy together.

We thought about straight up blocking premades of that dispersion, but it's pretty rare and didn't want to hard code a rule since the actual inaccuracy it causes on matchmaking is pretty small -- the system is not bad at rating the win chance of that duo.
LOL I smell so much bull.


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Haitah

Senior Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeroxable View Post
Pretty rare? You've got to be kidding, all I see in ranked are premades of Plats/Silvers, Golds/Bronzies, etc etc. It's more rare to see someone duo with another person even 2 divisions apart, ie Plat IV with Plat II.
Really? People duo with their bronze/silver friend(s)?
Hell, I won't duo with anyone I know unless they are already around my rank. Hell, even then I don't duo. I find it even harder to win with a duo.


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inbredpsychosis

Senior Member

11-24-2013

I like to play ranked with my friend(s), plz no nerf cause blue moon.


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A Bad Varus

Senior Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haitah View Post
Really? People duo with their bronze/silver friend(s)?
Hell, I won't duo with anyone I know unless they are already around my rank. Hell, even then I don't duo. I find it even harder to win with a duo.
It's sad, but it's true.

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Senior Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haitah View Post
Really? People duo with their bronze/silver friend(s)?
Hell, I won't duo with anyone I know unless they are already around my rank. Hell, even then I don't duo. I find it even harder to win with a duo.
play for fun, not for win


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March of Dimes

Senior Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Yes, that's a premade duo of high elo + low elo averages out to 'pretty good' elo. Gold and plat together are logical besides that... so it's just the diamond and silver guy together.

We thought about straight up blocking premades of that dispersion, but it's pretty rare and didn't want to hard code a rule since the actual inaccuracy it causes on matchmaking is pretty small -- the system is not bad at rating the win chance of that duo.
Well, duos of that large an mmr gap can't possibly be healthy for games, so why not do something about it? Even if it isn't adversely affecting the matchmaking of games including that duo (a fact I'm surprised to hear), if it makes those games have really lopsided lanes (diamond vs gold or plat vs silver), isn't it a bad experience for those players? Lastly, and this is just an appeal to common sense, don't you realize what duos of that disparity are there for? They boost someone to an mmr they don't belong at. Do you really want that in your matchmaking?


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

11-24-2013
2 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeroxable View Post
Pretty rare? You've got to be kidding, all I see in ranked are premades of Plats/Silvers, Golds/Bronzies, etc etc. It's more rare to see someone duo with another person even 2 divisions apart, ie Plat IV with Plat II.
The decision is along these lines:

1) How "Bad" is it when it happens? If clearly negative, worth fixing.
2) How frequently does it occur? (indicating priority if you extend against 'how bad')

I think the answers are:

1) After some very recent changes that went in this patch, it should not be skewing win chance (before there was a slight disadvantage to the diamond player/silver player duo). So, any 'badness' is comparing two intangibles: the intagible of 'The other 3 of us don't want silver guys in my plat game' vs the intangible of "We two want to easily play with my friends in solo queue'. I would rate this as arguably either 'slightly bad' or 'neutral'.
2) It doesn't happen that much.

We are not planning on blocking these premades. If you guys felt very much differently, that priority could change. But we don't see evidence that this is a clearly bad or clearly urgent problem, and we are instead spending time on making general improvements to matchmaking, some of which went in (undocumented) in this patch and shouldve enhanced match quality a lot.

If we were to fix it, we'd probably just put a tier restriction on extreme edge cases (e.g. if someone is more than 2 tiers from you, you can't match with them as a duo)

- Zileas


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JudoPunch

Senior Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Yes, that's a premade duo of high elo + low elo averages out to 'pretty good' elo. Gold and plat together are logical besides that... so it's just the diamond and silver guy together.

We thought about straight up blocking premades of that dispersion, but it's pretty rare and didn't want to hard code a rule since the actual inaccuracy it causes on matchmaking is pretty small -- the system is not bad at rating the win chance of that duo.
This often happens with my friends and I.

Why you do you not move people up more aggressively? Its obscene to have me and my gold buddy and our girlfriends queue up, and be placed against 2 diamonds and a gold and a bronze. Inevitably one of our friends is in lane with a diamond player and gets completely stomped.

I believe that given such a great discrepancy, you need to match the skill levels of the highest players, and than bring up their duos accordingly. The skill dispersion in LOL doesn't recognize 'balance by average of elo' because the difference between a Diamond player and a Silver player is disproportionate to an average of their mmr.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
The decision is along these lines:

1)How "Bad" is it when it happens? If clearly negative, worth fixing.
2) How frequently does it occur? (indicating priority if you extend against 'how bad')


I think the answers are:

1) I'd rather not have this in a ranked game I'm in, but it doesnt skew win chance as far as I know, after some very recent changes that went in this patch. So, we are comparing two intangibles -- the intagible of 'The other 3 of us don't want silver guys in my plat game' vs the intangible of "We two want to easily play with my friends in solo queue'. I would rate this as overall neutral or slightly bad.
2) It doesn't happen that much.

We will certainly have this debate again, but I don't think it's very negative (re: win chance) and it IS pretty rare. We are of course open to changing it, but is there a solution that really works? I guess we'd have to draw a line at some number of tiers.

- Zileas
This happens in at least 1/3 of my normal games with my friends. Only about 1/5 games are balanced, the rest are complete shutdowns in either direction.

I will start taking screenshots if you would like.

Last night. My team Gold gold gold silver un-ranked. Vs Plat 3 Plat 3 Plat 5, gold 1, gold 4. My GF was the silver player, I am gold 3 currently.


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carmen

Senior Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Yes, that's a premade duo of high elo + low elo averages out to 'pretty good' elo. Gold and plat together are logical besides that... so it's just the diamond and silver guy together.

We thought about straight up blocking premades of that dispersion, but it's pretty rare and didn't want to hard code a rule since the actual inaccuracy it causes on matchmaking is pretty small -- the system is not bad at rating the win chance of that duo.
can you explain this?Name:  Riot mm v2.jpg
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Shinoobert

Senior Member

11-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Yes, that's a premade duo of high elo + low elo averages out to 'pretty good' elo. Gold and plat together are logical besides that... so it's just the diamond and silver guy together.

We thought about straight up blocking premades of that dispersion, but it's pretty rare and didn't want to hard code a rule since the actual inaccuracy it causes on matchmaking is pretty small -- the system is not bad at rating the win chance of that duo.
it isn't all that rare and the fact that it can happen is pretty laughable.


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