Relic, Rakkor and Face of the Mountain

First Riot Post
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Far Shizzley

Member

11-23-2013

I love this thread. Thank you for changing targon slightly. Ive been have a blast with all of the season 4 changes, but yes targon did need some adjusting. Another point id like to make is that it is very clear that snowballing has been drastically reduced. Does riot like where the current anti-snowballing features are right now, or were they too much? Espescially with everyone having a bit more gold and late game arriving faster.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

11-23-2013
7 of 13 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadlessNewt View Post
As someone who's been watching the evolving double-shield meta on the Diamond featured games (and someone who hates seeing an item be mandatory on anything), I'm really glad to see this getting addressed quickly and openly by Riot.

Thanks for showing up and talking about it Xelnath.

To clarify: Spoils of War will give you the gold-share and heal effect when you last hit (either with spells or basic attacks) if you are Ranged or Melee, but will only execute minions on Melee champion basic attacks, correct?
Yup.


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ThinWhiteDuke

Senior Member

11-23-2013

How much is melee minion worth at the start of the game?


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Wicked Demiurge

Senior Member

11-23-2013

At the 15 minute mark, ranged minions are worth 25 gold. Killing them with FOTM delivers 35 gold to your lane partner.

At a 60 second cooldown, this is almost 3gp5. As a comparison, sitting AFK in the fountain with Frost Queen provides 4gp5, and perfect use can be 12 gp5.

Now, cannon minions will provide 5gp5 at this same point, but even perfect usage still is way below other new gold items. Under the old CD, that would be 10gp5 (Except a bit less due to not hving a cannon ever 30 seconds), but still competitive once you consider the heal.

Edit to add: I'd really like to see the double relic abuse case addressed without nerfing the item so badly.


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siegfriedx1

Senior Member

11-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
My mouth. It is suddenly full of so many words I did not put here.

I am a jungle main. I don't intend to allow junglers to disappear. A cursory analysis has shown that you get substantially more XP in jungle than sharing a top lane. Similarly, you get very competitive gold and very strong map pressure which forces lanes to play a certain way.

I'm not sure that 2:1:2 is as strong as people perceive it to be. This implies that players may be enjoying this because its new, novel or perhaps has some strengths that we don't clearly understand. Thus, it warrants further analysis, not brutal murder.
Why not instead of nerfing the shield, increasing the rate of the other two itens?


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Doctor Tam

Senior Member

11-23-2013

I do hope the nerfs don't come too hard. I liked the item because it was finally something being given to Roamers. I know Roaming was a niche Season 1 meta, but I thought it was neat compared to babysit support style everygame.


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Furi Kuri

Member

11-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by siegfriedx1 View Post
Why not instead of nerfing the shield, increasing the rate of the other two itens?
Because his plan was to nerf all support ratios, and gold items.


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JK6 FORCE

Senior Member

11-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolone Armitage View Post
I ask, because I think it's unlikely for both to coexist for very long. At the highest levels of play in any game, the slightest nuances get distilled down to a science; as refinement goes up, variety goes down. With the competitive scene typically defining the metagame followed by most of the playerbase, a meta-shift. Following on that thought, if 2-1-2 became the dominant meta, dedicated Jungling might disappear completely. It's tough to imagine what the game would be like without junglers, but, at the very least, it would leave a huge number of resources and much of map untapped in the early game.
He said he wants both to be viable and to have their own weaknesses as well as strengths. Jungling still allows a stealth attack, still allows people to level, still allow to get gold and scale. Jungling will never be unviable becuase he has the element of surprise and money on his side. He doesn't need to build some sheild or share gold with a sidekick. You are a man and you are here to kill things. You build straight up damage, you go into a lane, and make it a 3v2. While the other guys only have some crudy HP regen item, you have a red claw item and you are not afraid to use it.


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best irl cat na

Junior Member

11-23-2013

I like this change.


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JevelFaithful

Senior Member

11-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinWhiteDuke View Post
How much is melee minion worth at the start of the game?
20g. that'S 25 to the ally.