Relic, Rakkor and Face of the Mountain

First Riot Post
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GhostStalker

Senior Member

11-23-2013

thanks for the update bugman!


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Fomorian27

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Senior Member

11-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Hey guys,

I'm so glad you've all been enjoying the preseason. As we mentioned, we fully expected our changes to dramatically shake up the League of Legends you've known for so long. We're really happy to see people questioning the fundamental preconceptions they've held about league for so long.

That said, we've heard your concerns and we're going to nudge down the Relic Shield lines to free up some more breathing room for experimentation.

Goals:
  • Balance Relic Shield to match Spellthief and Ancient Coin incomes
  • Reduce the early gain sustain of Relic Shield
  • Focus Relic Shield's value on melee champions
  • Reduce the midgame pushing power of Targon's Brace

Specific Changes:
  • Relic Shield's execute will not proc on ranged attacks
  • Relic Shield's charge rate will be reduced by 50%.
  • Brace of Targon's max charges will be reduced to 3.

We're not removing the doubling up on Relic Shield yet, because we feel that once we've nerfed the frequency, we're hitting both the sustain and income rate for weakly investing in the item. That should let us clear away the early-game smoke and evaluate the impact of 2:1:2 on the game.

How does the income generation really work?
Every X seconds, you gain the ability to share the kill value of a minion with an ally with a small bonus.

This can effectively be calculated as GP/5:

30 sec cooldown -> 16 gold minion ~= 5 gp / 10

As so many players have noted, Ancient Coin and Spellthief's Edge give smaller amounts than this. So our first step is to reduce Relic Shield's income to put it on parity with the other items. The initial item is just too powerful for its cost, because it has a level 2 income stream on a cheaper item.

Now, let's talk about stacking. When you stack, you give 5 gp / 30 or 1 gp / 10 to your ally. This value might be too high and I'm personally keeping an eye on it. However, keep in mind most of the gold you share is still gold your lane mate could have CS'd themselves.

We also want to reward coordination and skill expression - so we're OK with the fact that if you execute the Cannon minion, you get more than the baseline cash. This is similar to how you can get extra gold from the Frostfang line if you stack auto attacks *and* spells when you harass.

Focusing its identity
Finally, we're changing the execute proc so it only triggers on melee attacks. This is because we feel good about about Relic Shield and Brace of Targon create for characters who have to place themselves into danger to last hit. This should also reduce the pushing potential of a lane with ranged characters. We feel safer about melee champions having this pushing power because once they are under tower, their ability to harass the opponent is dramatically riskier.

That said, we will be keeping an eye on the evolving nature of the game and want you guys to continue experimenting with the preseason changes. Once we have the Relic Shield nerfs fully tested and vetted, we'll bring them to you guys.

Jungle vs 2:1:2

We like that players are experimenting with the game. However, we want to make sure that whatever meta changes occur have clear trade-offs. Once Relic Shield is adjusted, we'll continue comparing jungler and non-jungler comps and make sure that there's a clear reason for doing them. Jungle should bring a distinct, clear advantage and risks, just as 2:1:2 brings its own advantage and risks.

Again, thanks for working with us to understand the preseason.
When you made the item, were you aware that it could lead to 2 1 2 setup being viable? Big props for trying to make that viable. Also, are you aware that if you last hit zac in his bloblets you give a nearby ally over 300 gold, both from the kill and the bonus from targons?


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Great Owl

Senior Member

11-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shosuko View Post
eh.... melee only???? boooo!!!!!!

Further - how about you cut the proc time to 60 seconds on the first one, but leave the 2nd one at 30 seconds? This way it will still pay off as the riskier item, but bring the gold flow in line with the other's where you actually get more gold for lvl'ing it.
Its not melee only, you just only get a damage bonus on melee attacks and on spells. Xelnath you should make that clear in your first post.


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Garlyle Wilds

Senior Member

11-23-2013

So am I right in assuming this means that Riot's taking the stance of "We're mostly fine with Relic Shield / the reemergence of 2-1-2 lane setups, we just don't want it to be completely beating out every other option?"


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Kuru Pichu

Member

11-23-2013

please just remove trinkets.

i'm tired of losing bot lane to annie support every ****ing game

i say ban annie and i get called noob


wtf no stop plz


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Strommsawyer

Junior Member

11-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Cyrus View Post
A bit off topic but since you're here now -

Though it's too early to tell anything for certain, the win rates (yes I know it doesn't mean everything) of Soraka, Sona and Janna have gone down the toilet in the small amount of stats currently available. I hope you guys have something planned in case that doesn't change once things settle down.
That's likely because of the changes to support and people not understanding the core concept of the support role.

I played a game with a Soraka last night. She didn't use her E to grant mana at all for the first 15 minutes of the game, until I asked her to do so. Instead she was running into team fights with multiple people needing mana, and using it against enemies. She also rarely stayed with the team, and tried to chase the opposing team away with starfall. I'm not saying this player shouldn't be able to do ability power Soraka, but if you call "support" I think you should support your team, otherwise call duo bottom.


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Fiercely Fuzzy

Member

11-23-2013

So if the effect is melee only....how does this affect thresh who has a melee range auto attack?


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Faceplosion

Senior Member

11-23-2013

Will the execute passive still work on someone like Thresh if they are in melee range when they attack?


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The Scyphozoa

Senior Member

11-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
If you want to proc the Spoils of War effect, you will need to CS normally or use a spell to kill a minion.
Wait...spells are going to work? so support Annie is now going to be able to charge her stun without using mana and without taking gold away from the carry?


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Tesla23

Member

11-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocent Canvas View Post
So if the effect is melee only....how does this affect thresh who has a melee range auto attack?
what