Relic, Rakkor and Face of the Mountain

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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

11-23-2013
1 of 13 Riot Posts

Hey guys,

I'm so glad you've all been enjoying the preseason. As we mentioned, we fully expected our changes to dramatically shake up the League of Legends you've known for so long. We're really happy to see people questioning the fundamental preconceptions they've held about league for so long.

That said, we've heard your concerns and we're going to nudge down the Relic Shield lines to free up some more breathing room for experimentation.

Goals:

  • Balance Relic Shield to match Spellthief and Ancient Coin incomes
  • Reduce the early game sustain of Relic Shield
  • Focus Relic Shield's value on melee champions
  • Reduce the midgame pushing power of Targon's Brace

Specific Changes:
  • Relic Shield's execute will not proc on ranged attacks
  • Relic Shield's charge rate will be reduced by 50%.
  • Brace of Targon's max charges will be reduced to 3.

We're not removing the doubling up on Relic Shield yet, because we feel that once we've nerfed the frequency, we're hitting both the sustain and income rate for weakly investing in the item. That should let us clear away the early-game smoke and evaluate the impact of 2:1:2 on the game.

How does the income generation really work?
Every X seconds, you gain the ability to share the kill value of a minion with an ally with a small bonus.

This can effectively be calculated as GP/5:

30 sec cooldown -> 16 gold minion ~= 5 gp / 10

As so many players have noted, Ancient Coin and Spellthief's Edge give smaller amounts than this. So our first step is to reduce Relic Shield's income to put it on parity with the other items. The initial item is just too powerful for its cost, because it has a level 2 income stream on a cheaper item.

Now, let's talk about stacking. When you stack, you give 5 gp / 30 or 1 gp / 10 to your ally. This value might be too high and I'm personally keeping an eye on it. However, keep in mind most of the gold you share is still gold your lane mate could have CS'd themselves.

We also want to reward coordination and skill expression - so we're OK with the fact that if you execute the Cannon minion, you get more than the baseline cash. This is similar to how you can get extra gold from the Frostfang line if you stack auto attacks *and* spells when you harass.

Focusing its identity
Finally, we're changing the execute proc so it only triggers on melee attacks. This is because we feel good about about Relic Shield and Brace of Targon create for characters who have to place themselves into danger to last hit. This should also reduce the pushing potential of a lane with ranged characters. We feel safer about melee champions having this pushing power because once they are under tower, their ability to harass the opponent is dramatically riskier.

That said, we will be keeping an eye on the evolving nature of the game and want you guys to continue experimenting with the preseason changes. Once we have the Relic Shield nerfs fully tested and vetted, we'll bring them to you guys.

Jungle vs 2:1:2

We like that players are experimenting with the game. However, we want to make sure that whatever meta changes occur have clear trade-offs. Once Relic Shield is adjusted, we'll continue comparing jungler and non-jungler comps and make sure that there's a clear reason for doing them. Jungle should bring a distinct, clear advantage and risks, just as 2:1:2 brings its own advantage and risks.

Again, thanks for working with us to understand the preseason.


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Bork Hammer 40k

Senior Member

11-23-2013

So I definitely like the idea of making the item melee only in the context of risk and reward. However, I think this limits the already small choice of good support gp 10 items even more in regards to ranged supports.

Reducing the charge time (if I'm reading it correctly) seems like it would make double melee lanes that pick up two of them snowball faster, even if you are planning to limit the maximum number of charges.

Thanks for taking a look at the item though. Hopefully this change allows junglers more relevancy in s4.


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IonCannonKarthus

Senior Member

11-23-2013

Jungler > 2-1-2 because Smite


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Our Final Rites

Senior Member

11-23-2013

ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Hey guys,

I'm so glad you've all been enjoying the preseason.
uh

Quote:
As we mentioned, we fully expected our changes to dramatically shake up the League of Legends you've known for so long. We're really happy to see people questioning the fundamental preconceptions they've held about league for so long.
it's like i don't even know how to play the game anymore

but ty for your kind words :^)

Quote:
That said, we've heard your concerns and we're going to nudge down the Relic Shield lines to free up some more breathing room for experimentation.
so, like, amulet coin darius annie bot, right?

Quote:

Specifically:
  • Relic Shield's execute will not proc on ranged attacks
  • Relic Shield's charge rate will be reduced by 50%.
  • Brace of Targon's max charges will be reduced to 3.
i'm in the top 3% of the NA server and even I don't experience the highest of competitive play, but lets pretend ranked doesn't matter and my opinion can be validated by how loud i can shout in text

Quote:
We're not removing the doubling up on Relic Shield yet, because we feel that once we've nerfed the frequency, we're hitting both the sustain and income rate for weakly investing in the item. That should let us clear away the early-game smoke and evaluate the impact of 2:1:2 on the game.
people who play jungle generally doesn't like it.

Quote:
-blurb about how irrelevant the rest of the gold items are-
yeah i suppose when items are never used its like they never exist

Quote:
Focusing its identity
Finally, we're changing the execute proc so it only triggers on melee attacks. This is because we feel good about about Relic Shield and Brace of Targon create for characters who have to place themselves into danger to last hit. This should also reduce the pushing potential of a lane with ranged characters. We feel safer about melee champions having this pushing power because once they are under tower, their ability to harass the opponent is dramatically riskier.
yay

but when i go up to kill a minion as blitzcrank i want to do it without the fear of dying to Bruiser support

Quote:
Jungle vs 2:1:2

We like that players are experimenting with the game. However, we want to make sure that whatever meta changes occur have clear trade-offs. Once Relic Shield is adjusted, we'll continue comparing jungler and non-jungler comps and make sure that there's a clear reason for doing them. Jungle should bring a distinct, clear advantage and risks, just as 2:1:2 brings its own advantage and risks.

Again, thanks for working with us to understand the preseason.
some people will flame me for this but i really want the jungle role to be better than 2-1-2 lane if played properly

because it's too easy to win the 2v1 top. there should be reward in playing a role that has a higher skill floor than "lel just pick aatrox zac top and dive level 2 it's not like ur gonna get punished for it"

anyway, satire aside, good to see you're updating us on whats next (to abuse, maybe)


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Draciusen

Senior Member

11-23-2013

So how will you used the Relic Shield on ranged characters?
Do you have to be within a certain range of the minion then?


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JevelFaithful

Senior Member

11-23-2013

Thanks for the post Xelnath. Good to have a thread we know the Red are watching!

Just to be sure, that means ranged characters will need to last hit legitemately to get the gold? (is legemately even a word, something's wrong about it.)


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Plentas

Senior Member

11-23-2013

I agree with these changes, and I like the paths you guys are going into. But I can't stress enough that you guys need to have more ap resistant items because so many APC's snowball way to hard no matter what time of the game it is. Regardless if they're fed or not, they still manage to wreck tanks even if it takes a bit longer. Some tanks in the game can adjust to these APC's but most can't.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

11-23-2013
2 of 13 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draciusen View Post
So how will you used the Relic Shield on ranged characters?
Do you have to be within a certain range of the minion then?
If you want to proc the Spoils of War effect, you will need to CS normally or use a spell to kill a minion.


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Shosuko

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Senior Member

11-23-2013

eh.... melee only???? boooo!!!!!!

edit - oh wait, it's only the execute that will proc on melee, the gold will still share with ranged. Okay, I'm down with that.

Further - how about you cut the proc time to 60 seconds on the first one, but leave the 2nd one at 30 seconds? This way it will still pay off as the riskier item, but bring the gold flow in line with the other's where you actually get more gold for lvl'ing it.


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Tesla23

Member

11-23-2013

jaja I like hue


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