Support Scaling and duo lanes discussion

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Mynt

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Senior Member

11-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMG halp meh plz View Post
Eh, I actually disagree with this. IMO part of LoL's initial design philosophy and appeal was character versatility. Its why AP Trist and AP Yi exist(ed).

What you've just said is exactly what DotA's game design is. There is nothing wrong with it, except why go that route NOW, when DotA has had this approach for far longer and is more balanced because of it?
DotA has not had this approach longer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnQfdSEqGDA

If you're going to make comparisons about which game was the "original," might want to check that 3 part series on the history of Aeon of Strife. Which some of us played, over a decade ago. >___>'


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WindLord7070

Senior Member

11-21-2013

is there any chance we can get sightstone to upgrade into something with ap? and the gold ap item to have more than 50 ap? also **** wasting a slot on pink wards


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Shinjusuke

Senior Member

11-21-2013

So, in the other thread you were posting in, Morello, you said we should hold the balance team accountable if things are wrong, and that 2 days doesn't constitute data.

I think you're missing the reason everyone is overreacting: We're NOT "only giving you guys 2 days". We're sitting around for months and months while our favorite characters feel like they're in the toilet, and it's even more painful when you tell us "yeah we're gonna fix this we promise" or "you guys should hold us accountable", but when we try, every thread either gets given the pimp-hand by a red or swept under the carpet.

I've been waiting since the end of season 2 for the AP Ezreal you guys annihilated with the mass wave of nerfs to become an option again, and I'm still sitting around with a lackluster ADC who's pretty much a living trinity force. My literal favorite champion playstyle since his release has sat in the trash can while I (and others) tried to "hold Riot accountable" when they said they'd assess him. I'm STILL waiting, an entire season later.

THAT'S why people are freaking out. It's not because they hate the changes, it's because if the changes are bad they have to accept their champions just outright not being playable for months while they wait for Riot to see we're "right" about something.


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OMG halp meh plz

Senior Member

11-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidgolem View Post

buuuuuuut the thought of "hey guys mids are kinda ridiculous" is an unpopular one. :|

Why can't it be "Supports aren't ridiculous enough"

Utlity mages are fine, the problem is that their utility is not inferior to support utility.

Buff support utility plz


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Azhliay

Senior Member

11-21-2013

The main problem that I am seeing here is that the ADC is becoming the star of the show in the lane for a vast portion of the game. In all of the games that I see, its the support making plays, its the support risking for the ADC. If the support dies, but you kill both of their laners, its a worthwhile trade.
Support's still need to be able to deal damage. Lulu was nerfed again and again for her ability to deal damage. And now she's have more nerfs. Lulu is a poke support, she relies on her ability to deal damage.

Most of the support's win lane for their ADC by Zoning. How can you zone the ADC when he deals more damage than you in a trade?


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Morello

Lead Designer

11-21-2013
29 of 29 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophitia View Post
Side note, it might be a good idea to sticky this thread, because there's a lot of conversation that people want to have about this issue, and it will definitely continue once the patch goes live.
True, though I'm about to go to bed and want to keep up on it. Stickying it might make people WHERE MORELLO AT?!


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Pokeprof

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Senior Member

11-21-2013

I kinda love how everyones going nuts with supports and what not when I'm kinda more in this boat with Junglers. Supports are CLEARLY going to be getting more golds worth out of their items, particularly since they're going to be earning it from minute one. Junglers, on the other hand, still gotta build up to their gold items, have one of them (Wriggles) be horribly weak, and in general we're still facing the problems of Lanes determining what is going to be happening with the jungle, as we won't be able to farm up as we need to if we're having to drop everything at lv 3 to gank.

That said, I think Changes in both might do well, but while I'm much more confident in the Support changes being good, I'm less then convince with the Jungle. I've also gotta say I'm more confused by the Will of the Ancients change and what it's place is exactly supposed to BE now, as well as if we're going to see anymore sweeping changes (IE, More items, bigger character changes, etc) before the true season starts or if this is going to be the limit of what we see.

Also, Morello, just because you told us to remind you, updates on the Master of Metal?


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Fisherman Fizz

Senior Member

11-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by mertatron View Post
yeah now supports can do stuff, so can xerath support .. so can leona support, so can annie or zyra support

it's not about the items and gold flow changes ... it's about balance between core supports and utility mages or killing lanes

utility mages and kiling lanes haven't beed changed and on top of their CC and burst, it wil be less kill or starve ... while supports are nerfed.

in comparison they will be able to buy items but compared to other champs and other potential non core supports, it's a nerf
Although you do get a ton of gold, the fact that you still need to start out with the sightstone and gp10 item makes it hard to not fall behind if you're not playing someone with enough utility. Every time I've seen a mage bot on PBE (aside from a few that are already good now) they fall behind in lane and never end up with enough gold for their damage to be all that relevant. It's hard to explain on paper but they really aren't as overpowered as you'd think they are at first.


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AmbushIntheDark

Senior Member

11-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
True, though I'm about to go to bed and want to keep up on it. Stickying it might make people WHERE MORELLO AT?!
Yeah, but ignoring most of the posts in the last 7-8 pages can get people saying that too.


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LVNsNASmurf

Senior Member

11-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman Fizz View Post
The first time I bought Ruby Sightstone it took a while to sink in that I was done buying wards for the rest of the game and I was free to use the rest of my gold however I wanted. Once you go back to the shop after that and spend all your gold on real items it's the best feeling ever.
And at that point, I'll be chuckling with my mage / fighter, as I'll be all amped up to do some damage. Heck, I might even just run dual ADCs for the serious lane pressure you can put down.

Quote:
Except it doesnt suck to play like that.
(I meant suck as in it's not fun, not that it's not effective).

Actually, it sodding well does suck to get no gold compared to the rest of the team, and to drop it all into ward. It feels HORRIBLE. It's 45 minutes in, I have a sightstone, boots, one item, and a horde of wards. Top, mid and ADC have just sold their boots for more item slots....

Damn.

I perfectly understand how strong vision is, indeed, I mentioned that not getting vision is pretty much throwing the game. That doesn't mean its a healthy, fun, or engaging playstyle for the poor sod who has to do the warding. It's in the preseason explanation that they recognised that play-style sucks.