Bye Bye Supports

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Gurei Fullbuster

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
If the worries are true, then we'll address it to make sure it's not permanent.
*COUGHMordekaisernerfsCOUGH*

I still remember way back when you last made your biggest nerf to him how someone took the time to make a mathematical argument how he was incredibly UP. A rioter (I think it was you) saw the thread and posted "Ok, I see your point. We'll buff him next patch." I was hopeful. Next patch: "Damage on E increased by 5 at all ranks"
.....-_-

The scenario given in the mathematical example was one of optimal conditions, where if everything went his way, he'd still lose out. All you did was make him go even given the optimal conditions. Since then you haven't touched him at all, and you continue to nerf items he uses. Even now, you are still doing it with the recent nerf (aka "change") to WotA. I did a mathematical comparison on that too, if you care to check my post history, I posted it 2 posts ago, earlier today.

Note that I'm not trying to bash you--I want to be constructive here because I want this type of stuff to be fixed, but every time I see you make posts along the lines of "If it doesn't work out, we'll fix it." bring out all the feelings of helplessness and disgust caused from your past decisions. :\


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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoLKiru View Post
If you don't mind my asking Morello, in terms of reacting aggressively to protect supports from obsoletion

Would you be nerfing the AP mids who go bot, or buffing the supports? Personally I think the latter is the better way to go, since it ensures that the AP mids will still be good in their own normal lanes, while improving the state of actual supports themselves.

Just curious is all =P
Rioters have said that they will be buffing supports, but this is nerf master suck town we're dealing with here...


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Arcane Ezreal

Senior Member

11-20-2013

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/support

Supports aren't intended to do insane amounts of dmg, but to make sure the dmg dealer has

1. Buffs from their abilities
2. Shields
3. CC/peel
4. Heals

the changes and scaling was reasonable.


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Ratastok

Senior Member

11-20-2013

You expect every support to buy AP,which wont be the case,since many of us like to build Aurabot style.
We will lose A LOT of our utility from Aura/active items if we buy AP,and we wont get it back and if we buy supportive items,we will lose a lot of our utility for not having AP.
I see it as a lose/lose situation for actuall supports atm.


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Zyras Honey Pot

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Isn't the crux of this problem that there's a ceiling to utility being useful?

You will never need more utility than is necessary to secure a kill. Someone already said this, but the strongest CC is death. This is why AP Utility Support works. They do -enough- CC while also still having the damage to secure kills. Having -more- utility but less damage is only relevant if having -less- utility but more damage doesn't get the ADC a kill. Of course having offensive utility like stuns, snares, fears is just one form of utility - but Soraka and Alistair don't really get picked to begin with.

The problem is that because AP mids are...mids that you can't just nerf them or else you condemn them to continue going support because they're no longer strong enough to sololane - which is exactly what Zyra is right now.


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Morello

Lead Designer

11-20-2013
17 of 19 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire Cerulius View Post
Honestly, I just hope what you did to Sona doesn't nerf her too much.

The constant nerfs to her is upsetting.

Also.. Just a question.. Why keep the heal if you're just going to constantly nerf it? Not a QQ moment, but I'm genuenly (I think I misspelled that) curious. Why constantly nerf it?
I can understand that, but I don't know how else to respond to her other than saying she's been getting a ton of use and has consistently the highest support winrate at 56%. So constant nerfs, but seems like we've been pretty kind to her overall.


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Chess435

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Senior Member

11-20-2013

Out of curiosity, did you ever consider giving any support AD scaling?


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EffectFX

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Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratastok View Post
You expect every support to buy AP,which wont be the case,since many of us like to build Aurabot style.
We will lose A LOT of our utility from Aura/active items if we buy AP,and we wont get it back and if we buy supportive items,we will lose a lot of our utility for not having AP.
I see it as a lose/lose situation for actuall supports atm.
So you don't build AP items on supports, so these AP ratio nerfs affect you how? There are some exceptions for the champs who had minor base nerfs, and they were minor.

Change your build, add a little AP (They do have aura items with AP on them), and give feedback. That's what the preaseason is for, I don't know how many threads I've already stated that in.


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Samflash3

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
You're comparing characters who are toxic and unhealthy for years instead of big preseason changes; this is the response to EXACTLY one of those problems (supports feel bad and are ward-*****es), and just like in Season 2, (League of X doesn't exist now, right?) we'll do what we need to.

"We'll buff the numbers on the support scaling rations in mostly non-damage ways, or nerfs extreme duo-lane offenders if needed/appropriate." That's the plan, basically - it's simple, and by necessity is reactive. What we've done here IS the proactive approach like giving them non-damage scaling and not going hard on the numbers tweaks.
The problem Morello is that utility mages are gonna benefit more from this than Support Mage. I've played characters like Anivia, LB, Lux, Orianna and I gotta say that if these characters get gold, they will outperform supports. While i'm not against then getting gold and damage, I still feel some of the changes were unneeded on real supports like Lulu's passive flat damage change.

Leona was an awesome change though and so was Taric but support mages aren't getting much compensation.


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Morello

Lead Designer

11-20-2013
18 of 19 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by YGY818 View Post
Example: Would adding a 0.001 AP Ratio on Sona's ult = Imbalanced>

100 AP = .1 Second more stun duration.
Don't want to scale CC with AP at all. Might be tough for a couple characters (though they likely just scale better on HP/CDR).