Bye Bye Supports

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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SummonerMan Matt View Post
This makes 100% sense not sure why people are so mad
Because it's fairly ludicrous that Morello can't see how it's a nerf when supports need 100+ AP to reach their CURRENT utility levels.


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Mirage Night

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
They do deal some. :P Not a ton because they shield, heal, buff and speed up allies. Sometimes they have tank-level CC.

I need to leave for now. Bottom line on this stuff;

1) Supports can do some damage; supports are not primary damage-dealers.

2) If the tuning is off and AP mids blow away support characters, we'll adjust aggressively throughout preseason.

3) Having not had gold in 3 years is not a counter-argument for why this class can not have damage nerfs when it should be focused on utility, which is how we will likely continue to scale them (CD's, duration, intensity, impact).

2) If the tuning is off and AP mids blow away support characters, we'll adjust aggressively throughout preseason.


You will be held accountable for this. And we expect a response when we say that this is occurring.


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InfiniX

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
You're comparing characters who are toxic and unhealthy for years instead of big preseason changes; this is the response to EXACTLY one of those problems (supports feel bad and are ward-*****es), and just like in Season 2, (League of X doesn't exist now, right?) we'll do what we need to.

"We'll buff the numbers on the support scaling rations in mostly non-damage ways, or nerfs extreme duo-lane offenders if needed/appropriate." That's the plan, basically - it's simple, and by necessity is reactive. What we've done here IS the proactive approach like giving them non-damage scaling and not going hard on the numbers tweaks.
Shh, just go back to nerfing Irelia


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MigraƱaboy

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Guise, dont you see now? Instead of nerfing now they will be buffing. Different approach here.


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Morello

Lead Designer

11-20-2013
15 of 19 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine Tog View Post
I think the thing is, we would've expected that sort of balancing paradigm to start by just adding utility scaling and then nerfing their damage after the patch so you'd know whether their damage needed a nerf and by how much. Nerfing their numbers out of the gate seems like jumping the gun, like it's gonna lead to whack-a-mole balancing. I also really, really hope you guys don't react to the further proliferation of utility mages in the support role by nerfing utility mages (many of whom aren't especially great mid at the moment anyway).

That said, it's good to have it reiterated that you guys are gonna watch it carefully. We're just trying to keep your feet to the fire. ^_^
We did this originally and it was crazyland. These nerfs after the best stab after 3 months of internal testing.


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LoLKiru

Senior Member

11-20-2013

If you don't mind my asking Morello, in terms of reacting aggressively to protect supports from obsoletion

Would you be nerfing the AP mids who go bot, or buffing the supports? Personally I think the latter is the better way to go, since it ensures that the AP mids will still be good in their own normal lanes, while improving the state of actual supports themselves.

Just curious is all =P


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Gods Grunt

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
They do deal some. :P Not a ton because they shield, heal, buff and speed up allies. Sometimes they have tank-level CC.

.
ori does every single thing you just mentioned, along with using q for scouting


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Duffman316

Senior Member

11-20-2013

morello chiming in with silver tier balancing as usual

this guy plays nothing but rammus

he has no idea about what life is like in bottom lane for supports


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Coldmanj

Senior Member

11-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
A glance at the patch notes can read like a nerf, if you ignore the context or associated changes. AP Mids may have additional viability bottom lane, though our changes are specifically to bulwark against that.
aight I just want to put my 2 cents in on this little tid bit you mentioned here. AP mids may have additional viability bottom lane...

It isn't a may have but a will have as we are already seeing this with annie, zyra, and fiddlesticks. The idea around pushing a supports utility over their damage is sound in theory but the issue is that you can find similar utility in AP mid champs as well. I expect to see many AP mids being used as supports now so long as they have a utility built into their kit.

Right now I feel you made perfect changes to lulu and sona. Allowing their passives to scale was exactly the right direction you could have gone. many of the other older supports dont have this kind of outlet though.


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Morello

Lead Designer

11-20-2013
16 of 19 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage Night View Post
2) If the tuning is off and AP mids blow away support characters, we'll adjust aggressively throughout preseason.


You will be held accountable for this. And we expect a response when we say that this is occurring.
Great - you should! I think it's our responsibility to be accountable here.

(2 days does not constitute data, just to remember). Give it a little time to settle, see the fallout, then adjust. Not a LOT of time, just a little.