New Raka sounds so damn good.

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Hidden Dragon

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Senior Member

11-18-2013

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Originally Posted by NTR15 View Post
You aren't taking into consideration the additional healing that you will be doing from AP. Even with nerfed ratios, no one ever built Support Raka with AP. Therefore, she will heal more through AP compared to before.

What we have now is a Raka who heals for 350 with a maxed out W. No one builds AP, so that's all you get. Period. The new Raka will heal for 340 with 200 AP, which should be somewhat easy to get by the time you have a maxed W, thanks to the new gold gains. Then the new passive comes into play. And this is just assuming that the player doesn't go above 200 AP.
True to an extent, although I consider a breakeven point of 200 AP pretty high and it's going to lead to pretty bad early and mid games for Soraka.


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Blaine Tog

Senior Member

11-18-2013

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Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
We're not trying to nerf Soraka, instead aiming to adjust her play style to fit with the preseason changes and have a healthier pattern (in combat saves and action over staying back and topping off her team). As with all the core supports we've made some adjustments to if this does turns out to be a giant nerf we'll put some power back into them in the follow up patch. Similarly if our assessments been wrong in the other direction, and some supports end up too strong following the preseason patch, we'll tone their power down.

TLDR: Let's talk a week or two after the patch goes out once things have been experimented with and settle down a bit and we'll then adjust power as needed.
I'm totally on board with seeing how it all falls down with the new changes, but I am concerned that Soraka's core issue hasn't been addressed: as a dedicated healer, she either erases the enemy's efforts and is toxic or fails to erase their efforts and is useless. If the former, she's just going to get nerfed and if the latter, utility mages will poach her spot on the team. Do you guys have ideas for which levers to pull to get her into a good, competitive spot?


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NTR15

Senior Member

11-18-2013

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Originally Posted by LouisLeGros View Post
And you are disregarding the alternate supports now also having more gold, so say Annie support doing more damage has to be taken into account.
I am not disregarding this. I am simply saying that overall, the new Raka will be better than the old. She, without comparing her to any other champ, will be stronger.


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Hidden Dragon

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11-18-2013

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Originally Posted by NTR15 View Post
I am not disregarding this. I am simply saying that overall, the new Raka will be better than the old. She, without comparing her to any other champ, will be stronger.
Without comparing her to other champions this discussion is pointless. You can say "Soraka can heal 100 health every 10 seconds." It means nothing without considering "X champion can deal 200 damage every 3 seconds."

Champion balance is not in a vacuum. Stop treating it like it is.

If all the supports are hugely buffed and Soraka only gets a minor buff, she'd suck balls (even moreso than she does now). That's the situation right now.


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Blaine Tog

Senior Member

11-18-2013

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Originally Posted by NTR15 View Post
I am not disregarding this. I am simply saying that overall, the new Raka will be better than the old. She, without comparing her to any other champ, will be stronger.
Regardless of whether she's stronger or not, you can't ignore her competition in this sort of situation. If Ashe got an extra 5% damage from some change to ADCs but all other ADCs got an extra 50% damage, Ashe would've gotten effectively nerfed from orbit because she won't be able to compete with anyone else.


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Dryad Soraka

Senior Member

11-18-2013

I played Soraka support on PBE earlier, had support items and over 400 AP. It was nice.


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KirbyCake

Senior Member

11-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
We're not trying to nerf Soraka, instead aiming to adjust her play style to fit with the preseason changes and have a healthier pattern (in combat saves and action over staying back and topping off her team). As with all the core supports we've made some adjustments to if this does turns out to be a giant nerf we'll put some power back into them in the follow up patch. Similarly if our assessments been wrong in the other direction, and some supports end up too strong following the preseason patch, we'll tone their power down.

TLDR: Let's talk a week or two after the patch goes out once things have been experimented with and settle down a bit and we'll then adjust power as needed.
you know what i hate about hypocrites, they just talk a bunch of nonsense

you are punishing soraka players regardless of what playstyle they do. you not only nerfed her heals but also her damage and harass.

her silence is already broken and glitched, and now you are changing it so it does 0 damage. also the ninja nerf on q makes it so it doesn't do anything now.

basically you are making it so that she can ONLY heal, and at much lower amounts

please stop trying to convince people with your nonsense

you know, whenever you guys say you're not trying to nerf a champion, but you lower all thier numbers, its pretty obvious you're trying to kill the champion


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NTR15

Senior Member

11-18-2013

Just as an experiment, I'm doing some math.

If Raka builds Tear and RoA, and takes the new upcoming mastery for 6% more mana, she could easily have over 3k mana by end game. These two items alone will also give her 232 AP(80 from RoA, and 60+92 from Seraph).

Then she has CDR boots, and of course has her gold item(which also gives more AP). And obviously a Sightstone.

Then that last item could be anything. Maybe Frozen Heart for some tanyness, more CDR, and more mana(which would result in more AP).

This is just a build I pulled out of my ass, and it results in a pretty good Raka. Good HP(her base and scaling is also being buffed), good armor, max CDR, ton of mana(which will make her E better than it is now), and a pretty good amount of AP.


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KirbyCake

Senior Member

11-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NTR15 View Post
Just as an experiment, I'm doing some math.

If Raka builds Tear and RoA, and takes the new upcoming mastery for 6% more mana, she could easily have over 3k mana by end game. These two items alone will also give her 232 AP(80 from RoA, and 60+92 from Seraph).

Then she has CDR boots, and of course has her gold item(which also gives more AP). And obviously a Sightstone.

Then that last item could be anything. Maybe Frozen Heart for some tanyness, more CDR, and more mana(which would result in more AP).

This is just a build I pulled out of my ass, and it results in a pretty good Raka. Good HP(her base and scaling is also being buffed), good armor, max CDR, ton of mana(which will make her E better than it is now), and a pretty good amount of AP.
your build is absolute trash, soraka is designed to gain an advantage early game and snowball off of that.

this means you can't build late game items such as tear or roa, not to mention you will never be a threat to anybody with lack of mobility and cc.

athene is for mana problems, you NEED rylais in order to have some kiting power.

just your garbage suggested build already tells me you have never played solo lane soraka much, at least in ranked games.

no, a 5% mana ratio is not good enough justification to build mana like ryze. why don't you build ap on ad champions that randomly have 1 ap ratio then.


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Alphard

Senior Member

11-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
We're not trying to nerf Soraka, instead aiming to adjust her play style to fit with the preseason changes and have a healthier pattern (in combat saves and action over staying back and topping off her team). As with all the core supports we've made some adjustments to if this does turns out to be a giant nerf we'll put some power back into them in the follow up patch. Similarly if our assessments been wrong in the other direction, and some supports end up too strong following the preseason patch, we'll tone their power down.

TLDR: Let's talk a week or two after the patch goes out once things have been experimented with and settle down a bit and we'll then adjust power as needed.
No you wont. You never fix things you guys nerf on. Look at diana, she almost never played because your little readjustment. Look at akali? Hello? Just because she facerolled low elo you guys nerfed her to oblivion. Look at zac, zed, kha zix, singed and many other you guysnerf. It a disaster amd you know it. No offense but does riot let ANYONE make these game changes? Because the things you guys been tampering has been terrible to be quite honest. I honestly can't recall a fair nerf. You guys think nerfing these supports will help them in s4 when in reality anyone with a brain will just abuse apc like annie in bot lane. I'm excited to see these wonderful changes in s4, like the HUGE jungle diversity we were suppose to get every season but backfired miserably.