Undeath, Terror and Acid Hunters: Let's talk Urgot

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Peple77

Junior Member

11-18-2013

I only see a few problems with Urgot and I enjoy playing him whenever I get the chance. The main reason is the range of his auto attacks and lvl 6 ult. Every other marksman has a range of atleast 500+ while Urgots is a punny 425 making it very hard to dish out any sort of damage early on espcially of how mana hungry he is at early stages. The lvl 6 ultimate has a very tiny range; It is basically useless in laning phase due to the fact that one can not grab hold of the enemy to put them in the turret or prevent them from running away. Lastly make him just a little less mana hungry because even tied up with the AD form of the tear (can't remember the name) the active sucks his mana out of him. Maybe a slightly less CD on the Q so it can be more constant and be able to get more in before acid runs off.


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CrazyGoNuts

Senior Member

11-18-2013

The most fun ability he has, and also the most unique and useful one, is his ult. Please don't get rid of his ult.


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IS1c83d8cd205d29a87e739

Junior Member

11-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inciflahrdus View Post

It would be cool if Terror Capacitor would, ya know, fear enemies?

About his ulti - power of it is very situational, but as someone writed earlier, you would expect something brutal and painfull from Urgot. Like Rivens ultimate
THIS guy has just given me two ideas.

A) Terror capacitor, a brief shield that fear enemies around him, while is on (2-3 secs at max rank)

B)A truly REVERSAL ultimate; you can swap positions like now, but..what about swap current hp? Just think in a Trundle ultimate, but thx to it, you could "pass your pain" to another champ. If you are really low hp, and you have good timing to use the ultimate (like Trynda would do), you could get one champ and swap your current life (for example,a moment, but the enemy could DIE in that moment with low hp).

Of course,this is just one rough idea, but I think we could even improve his ultimate adding more cohesion to his theme : )

P.S Dunno why my username looks like a robot too : \

P.P.S Urgot will be a market sale if they bring Urf back from the dead in a legendary skin, Urfgot (like a lot of people has previously said before


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Samuel L Jaxx

Senior Member

11-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerDrool View Post
One possible change to Urgot's ult that could go over well is making it require two targets. Basically swap the first and second person you target with two presses of R. That'd allow Urgot to use it while staying at range.
Swap enemy tank/squish OR swap you own tank in so they can engage without using a spell and make squish vulnerable at once.


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Riot Taco Storm

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Associate QA Lead

11-18-2013
7 of 24 Riot Posts

tl;dr it's not super clear how to play urgot and what role on the team he fills.

As a long time lover of all things Urgot, here are my thoughts on where he is now.

He has an identify crisis between being a ranged AD bruiser and being an AD carry.

His passive is more for the bruiser playstyle, since he has to (for the msot part) get into range to apply it. Most ADCs will out range him and kite him given good/equal play styles, so by the time you apply the passive you've taken a good chunk of damage.

Spamming Q and trying to autoattack that same target takes a lot of practice/skill. Not necessarily a bad thing, but trying to constantly change targets as an ADC, while landing your Qs (assuming no E lock on) and trying to stay out of the fight is difficult. Further more, if you do land your E in a team fight, your range is short enough that you typically have to get into melee range of their front line in order to bombard their back line with Qs. That and the cast time for Q feels awkward late game when you've got AS, if you're building him like an ADC.

The slow on the shield is a neat trick, but again I'm not sure if this is meant for a bruiser type (stick to a target and whittle them down) or an ADC (stay in the back providing continuous damage output). Or even if he's supposed to be an AD caster.

His E is an awesome ability, and the E -> Q combo is what sort of defines the urgot playstyle, but I feel like it's lacking finese. E doesn't feel particularly good to land, given how slow the projectile is. While it does shred armour, it doesn't feel particularly damaging, which is often times what makes things satisfying.

His ult is also kind of weird to me. It's really only "safe" to use in cleanup or 1v1 scenarios, or as an escape. If you're the ADC, you probably don't want to swap yourself in to initiate. If you swap somebody in a 1v1 to get the bonus stats though, that's far more useful. But it feels like it would be really fun/powerful as an initiation tool, but that's often times bad for urgot when he does that.

Overall it just feels like it has a really mixed kit, which is kind of why I like him. He's my little frankenstein crab dude. But despite playing lots of games, it's hard to find a role he excels at. He's lots of fun as an ADC in lane, but out of lane he falls off. If you build him like a bruiser, he can be a lot of fun late game, but he's a sitting duck in a lot of lanes and has little sustain/waveclear (often times the hallmarks of good bruisers/top laners).


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exec3

Senior Member

11-18-2013

I find his ult redundant in a 1v1 as the swap is kind of pointless. If you use an ultimate usually you want to use it for the whole effect, not just part of it (in this case you just want the stats, aka invisible power).

You also say sustain/waveclear is a hallmark of bruisers, aren't they some of the things that will be looked at with the top lane fighter remake? What i'm getting at is that you don't want to change Urgot to be like other fighters when other fighters are about to get changed as a class, you'll just be doubling up on rework duties. Though I imagine Urgot will be done after the fighter remake since he's a fair way off so this shouldn't be an issue.


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thepantsparty

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Senior Member

11-18-2013

I had always assumed the purpose of his ult was that if the enemy adc gets out of position, you ult them so they wind up next to your team and you wind up next to theirs. The difference is that you have a couple of free negatrons+chain vests in defensive stats plus a shield so you can waddle back to your team and have a chance to make it out alive (or at least make them use up a bunch of big cooldowns to kill you) while the enemy adc has no such protections and gets immediately vaporized.


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Arbiter Knight

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Member

11-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Taco Storm View Post
tl;dr it's not super clear how to play urgot and what role on the team he fills.

As a long time lover of all things Urgot, here are my thoughts on where he is now.

He has an identify crisis between being a ranged AD bruiser and being an AD carry.

His passive is more for the bruiser playstyle, since he has to (for the msot part) get into range to apply it. Most ADCs will out range him and kite him given good/equal play styles, so by the time you apply the passive you've taken a good chunk of damage.

Spamming Q and trying to autoattack that same target takes a lot of practice/skill. Not necessarily a bad thing, but trying to constantly change targets as an ADC, while landing your Qs (assuming no E lock on) and trying to stay out of the fight is difficult. Further more, if you do land your E in a team fight, your range is short enough that you typically have to get into melee range of their front line in order to bombard their back line with Qs. That and the cast time for Q feels awkward late game when you've got AS, if you're building him like an ADC.

The slow on the shield is a neat trick, but again I'm not sure if this is meant for a bruiser type (stick to a target and whittle them down) or an ADC (stay in the back providing continuous damage output). Or even if he's supposed to be an AD caster.

His E is an awesome ability, and the E -> Q combo is what sort of defines the urgot playstyle, but I feel like it's lacking finese. E doesn't feel particularly good to land, given how slow the projectile is. While it does shred armour, it doesn't feel particularly damaging, which is often times what makes things satisfying.

His ult is also kind of weird to me. It's really only "safe" to use in cleanup or 1v1 scenarios, or as an escape. If you're the ADC, you probably don't want to swap yourself in to initiate. If you swap somebody in a 1v1 to get the bonus stats though, that's far more useful. But it feels like it would be really fun/powerful as an initiation tool, but that's often times bad for urgot when he does that.

Overall it just feels like it has a really mixed kit, which is kind of why I like him. He's my little frankenstein crab dude. But despite playing lots of games, it's hard to find a role he excels at. He's lots of fun as an ADC in lane, but out of lane he falls off. If you build him like a bruiser, he can be a lot of fun late game, but he's a sitting duck in a lot of lanes and has little sustain/waveclear (often times the hallmarks of good bruisers/top laners).
I agree on all points. Nothing wrong with being a bit of both, it's just that he isn't enough either I think.

Thanks riot! Looking forward to this as someone who liked to play him in season 2, I think his kiting should be made to feel more fluid, and he doesn't kite well after his w wears off due to his short aa range and its long attack animation. I think the range should still be kept short because he a is a bruiser sort of ad caster, but he is still is sort of adc, I think he should be made more MOBILE, because he will be competing with other riven ezreal players etc, would be fun to be able to keep up with them and have a fun action paced duel . Not sure how this can be done but I think something like granting bonus move speed upon landing a q on a champ or something like that (or getting move speed when hit by enemy champion, idk, would like to see what creative solution riot or the community could come up with ). And making the mark that his e leaves on champs deal dmg based on missing hp every time urgot lands a q.

Anyways I really look forward to this! Thanks Riot!
I will get to show off my battlecast urgot skin again

PS why not remove the channel time on urgots ult and make it a 2second delay or something, where urgot can still move around (but with decreased move speed and cant attack??) then gaining move speed after ult?


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

11-18-2013

First off, I'm going to have to preface this by saying that I've never been a fan of ADC Urgot simply because he scales so much harder off of armor pen and cdr.
I think reinforcing his semi-tanky high dps ranged caster nature is the correct way to preserve Urgots feel.

My thoughts on potential Urgot changes, if they really MUST be done, would be to ramp up the armor shred and move it from grenade to ult, throw in the slow from shield, and lower its cooldown?
Then you could put the resists on the shield instead (after lowering them, of course) and it would make a lot more sense.

I can totally see Urgots ult being a massive offensive steroid, and everyone loves their offensive steroids.

Also, I'm going to have to disagree with most of the points in your most recent post, Taco.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Taco Storm View Post
Spamming Q and trying to autoattack that same target takes a lot of practice/skill. Not necessarily a bad thing, but trying to constantly change targets as an ADC, while landing your Qs (assuming no E lock on) and trying to stay out of the fight is difficult.
Further more, if you do land your E in a team fight, your range is short enough that you typically have to get into melee range of their front line in order to bombard their back line with Qs. That and the cast time for Q feels awkward late game when you've got AS, if you're building him like an ADC.
High "difficulty" is not necessarily a bad thing.

Q-auto weaving is something I personally like about Urgot. Gives players who enjoy doing more than just clicking a button once every 5 seconds and then right-clicking a target a fun mechanically high involvement.
I personally love the Q-auto weaving and would hate to see it gone, especially since the only way to "remove" that sort of high apm interaction would be to drastically increase Q cooldown, which would flatten the hell out of Urgot and turn his gameplay into another generic autoattacker.

As to your second point, I'm not sure what you're smoking here.
1.2k range lockon missles are MUCH longer than any autoattack and most spells in the game, so unless you are trying to say that ADC and mages in general have to put themselves in danger to autoattack the back line (which is true), I'm not seeing the problem.
Or the point.

Playing keep-away with 1k ranged Qs and an on-hit slow isn't exactly the most difficult thing in the world. Urgot has a much easier time of it than something like Twitch or MF.

Urgot is a lot like Vayne and Kog'maw in that the shred from his grenade combined with his high natural damage allow him to shred enemy frontlines.
AS has always been a waste on Urgot, whereas building him with Cleaver+LW retains his extremely high dps while also letting you punch through pretty much anything you come across.

Quote:
The slow on the shield is a neat trick, but again I'm not sure if this is meant for a bruiser type (stick to a target and whittle them down) or an ADC (stay in the back providing continuous damage output). Or even if he's supposed to be an AD caster.
Slows are nothing unusual, for both bruisers and ADC alike. The continuous permaslow is a tad out of the ordinary, but it gives Urgot that tool he needs to kite/chase enemies since he doesn't have a natural gapcloser or escape.
Urgot plays like a caster/carry hybrid, where he uses his abilities combined with auto-spam to dish out massive hurt on things from the backline.
Think Cassio, only with more autoattacks. I'm still not seeing a problem here.

Quote:
His E is an awesome ability, and the E -> Q combo is what sort of defines the urgot playstyle, but I feel like it's lacking finese. E doesn't feel particularly good to land, given how slow the projectile is. While it does shred armour, it doesn't feel particularly damaging, which is often times what makes things satisfying.
Not every ability needs to have finesse. See: every bruiser in existance, a lot of tanks, some mages. Like, half or more of the roster is low finesse. Its not a big deal.

E actually feels GREAT to land because when it does, you can clearly see his Qs and autos doing a ton more damage.
Still not seeing any problems here.
Giving the grenade shred a bigger, flashier particle would probably improve perception a ton.

Quote:
He's lots of fun as an ADC in lane, but out of lane he falls off. If you build him like a bruiser, he can be a lot of fun late game, but he's a sitting duck in a lot of lanes and has little sustain/waveclear (often times the hallmarks of good bruisers/top laners).
Being a low sustain sitting duck in lane didn't stop Kassadin from rampaging.

Quote:
His ult is also kind of weird to me. It's really only "safe" to use in cleanup or 1v1 scenarios, or as an escape. If you're the ADC, you probably don't want to swap yourself in to initiate. If you swap somebody in a 1v1 to get the bonus stats though, that's far more useful. But it feels like it would be really fun/powerful as an initiation tool, but that's often times bad for urgot when he does that.
I will agree with you here, ult feels a bit weird.
Its an extremely powerful ability when used correctly, and I've used it to bring fleeing enemies into my team or start clutch fights, but it feels a tad out of place.


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TheComedian80

Junior Member

11-18-2013

How about having his Q proc on hit effects when it targets a vitim affected by his E ? Would enable trinity force or even Iceborn Gauntlet to be use. Upping the ap scaling on his W or even replacing it with Ad scaling (aka riven) could be interesting.