Introducing Team Builder

First Riot Post
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flemmy7

Senior Member

11-14-2013

can I switch champs in queue..esp if I dont like the rest of the team


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Elf5oul

Junior Member

11-15-2013

This looks great, but if someone's trolling how to make it better? or only way to reported?


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BigFatPrincee

Senior Member

11-15-2013

It's rarely to find someone who wants to play as support, in bronze. We gonna have to wait for sooooo long time.


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PubME

Senior Member

11-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
This is something we discussed pretty extensively while building the rules of the system. We didn't want to enforce the meta, but we also didn't set out to try to break it. Instead, we wanted to put the tools in players' hands.

Some of the research we did to see if this feature would have legs showed that players were actually pretty happy to play outside of the "standard" meta, as long as the composition made sense from a "what can this champion do" (not a lot of players were excited about solo-lane Sona, but Swain top was pretty accepted). There's some players who will be pretty strict, but perceptions on that are actually pretty widely varied.

In short, it's something we'll be watching, and it's definitely something we've considered quite a bit. Given the broad range of beliefs regarding what a viable composition is, I think there will actually be a decent amount of variance.
Hey davin,

I'm curious about Riot's research methods here. It seems that the team builder was designed around survey input.

Well, in my experience, surveys are only partial truths. People tend to put their best foot forward, so to speak, so surveys have a lot of lying and half truths involved. As such, I think it's naive to trust input from surveys.

Was any of the research done with actual players? Did you sit down and chat, either online or verbally, with a pool of players from each Tier/Division within the MMR spectrum? Did Riot call guys like me to discuss? Did you fly anyone out to tour the headquarters building, then sit them down in a conference room to chat about it?

The PBE testing obviously will come next, obviously. But based only on surveys? I don't trust this method.

I'm incredibly, immutably skeptical of the team builder system. I feel that it will only increase flaming/trolling due to lolking, that certain champs will never see gameplay ever again (Sion, other niche picks), etc. I'd like to see details on how/why Riot believes this won't happen.

"Because our surveys showed that people would be willing to let all this off-the-wall stuff happen" is a very naive way to institute such a major change that will become a crutch, then it will become cannon.

I have a lot of faith in Riot. I'm typically one of your whiteknights on all the stuff you get flamed for as a company here on the forums. I even try to be nice to the mean people when I argue in Riot's defense; sometimes I'm rude and rash about it.

But this... I don't feel good about this. My gut tells me this is going to be a bad, bad, bad thing for League, so I'm really curious what types of research you have. I hope it's not just surveys. I hope it's from having actual discussions with people like me.

Sincerely,

Pub


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TheSurfinSlayer

Senior Member

11-15-2013

I have a few scenarios that I'm worried about. Mostly since the overall toxic nature of the playerbase I've had to deal with drove me to just play bot games with friends. Not dicking around by any means, we still play to win but we cannot get a 5 man premade going most of the time. I play this game to enjoy myself in free time. Not to have people screaming at me for playing what I want to play and where.

But anyway, what if this system causes things like....


A team captain who accepts a group of others. Approves them. But waits until the game has started and then trolls everyone? Or a player who does the same? Can a new report function be added to specifically outline they tricked others during team builder?


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rpaj

Member

11-15-2013

Any idea when this will be released? when the next season starts?

Also haven't read too much on how it works exactly, but I'm hoping you just pick ADC/Jungler/Support instead of picking a champion that represents that role. It would be easier to build a team like that say if I pick ADC and I can talk to my support to find out the best combination for that current game. Hopefully its not a mismash of random champions.


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davin

Senior User Researcher

11-15-2013
100 of 101 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by PubME View Post
Hey davin,

I'm curious about Riot's research methods here. It seems that the team builder was designed around survey input.

Was any of the research done with actual players?
Yes, definitely! Surveys are only part of our research approach (though I think surveys in general are less volatile than you give them credit for--there's some good ways to reduce validity concerns, and they're one of the best ways we have for getting really broad feedback). There was a fair amount of lab research involved in the design and iteration of Team Builder. With something like this, it'd be a pretty bad call for us to just use a single source of qualitative data and then charge ahead.

Team Builder had extra fun research, as Von Burgermeister made a whole bunch of prototypes and we got to iterate and iterate and iterate based on how folks were experiencing them. This was done with a nice range of skill levels and experience levels.

Of course, all of that just arms us to be informed about the value and the risks and what-not. It'll still be important to see how it works once it's out and to remain agile based on feedback.


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m5a5t3t

Recruiter

11-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMaskSalesmn View Post
Searching for bottom lane: support

...

3 hours later

Searching for bottom lane: support
it shouldnt take long, i was reading up on this more because i thought the same thing, but 15% of players were willing to go support and 5% were willing to fill any lane, and for the ppl who like support, the queues should be pretty fast as ppl will be looking for supports. Its a great idea the team builder, but u might be right, there might be no supports, we just gotta wait and find out.


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Hold me back bro

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Member

11-15-2013

my body is ready


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PubME

Senior Member

11-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
Yes, definitely! Surveys are only part of our research approach (though I think surveys in general are less volatile than you give them credit for--there's some good ways to reduce validity concerns, and they're one of the best ways we have for getting really broad feedback). There was a fair amount of lab research involved in the design and iteration of Team Builder. With something like this, it'd be a pretty bad call for us to just use a single source of qualitative data and then charge ahead.

Team Builder had extra fun research, as Von Burgermeister made a whole bunch of prototypes and we got to iterate and iterate and iterate based on how folks were experiencing them. This was done with a nice range of skill levels and experience levels.

Of course, all of that just arms us to be informed about the value and the risks and what-not. It'll still be important to see how it works once it's out and to remain agile based on feedback.
Fair enough, and thanks for the response. Not gonna lie - I'm gonna remain super skeptical of this system until I see some dramatic awesomeness when it rolls out. It's gonna take some major convincing to get me on board. :-/

As for the volatility thing - I've seen way too many surveys skew the truth simply because they ask the wrong questions.

For example, University of Phoenix has you take a long survey as part of the enrollment process. You have to mark 3 responses to 3 statements: Most agree > Agree > Least agree. There is no way you can convince me it says much about me as a person when I have to choose one of those three options between three statements that I wholeheartedly agree with.

Extreme example of what I'm talking about:
Choose - Most Agree, Agree, Least Agree - out of the following statements.

1) Murder should be punished.
2) Theft should be punished.
3) Meth cooking should be punished.

I'm not kidding. University of Phoenix has a survey that makes you answer this stuff in that fashion. It forces you to compromise your own beliefs and your own self-image simply to complete the thing.

Surveys. :-/

Anyway, /rant. Here's hoping for the best with the team builder.