Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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Shahamut

Senior Member

11-10-2013

Seriously, the language is not necessary. They are probably just busy finishing their rework of Xerath. Honestly though, I hope we see a response soon. Im curious as to weather or not they have considered any of the arguments brought forth on here.


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Karede

Senior Member

11-11-2013

It would be great to be able to talk to Scruffy about not destroying Skarner's Q.

Don't do it scruffy!! The community that enjoys Skarner does not want a change if that is the result of a change!!


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MajorMajora

Senior Member

11-11-2013

I got to say, the most defining part of Skarner besides his ult is his Q. Its a low cooldown damage move, sure, but the important part is that it augments his basic attacks to deal magic damage and to slow. In teamfights he's a constant source of peeling/locking down with his Q and it is pretty much the tool that makes him viable. I just finished playing a game where I was at low health with a low health lux on my team with me. We just finished a fight in the enemy red jungle and others were coming to clean us up. They went for lux first, so I jumped in with my W and slowed him with a 1-2 Q to basic attack combo. As he began to focus me, I ate it with my shield as I continued to basic attack as my Lux melted him. happened again with a second enemy that came, and we both escaped with our lives.

What I would change is adding something to make his E better. Like, not just less useless, but a seriously defining part of his kit outside of jungle sustain. Maybe you could make it cause hitting an enemy to not consume the mark and not have the heal decrease per proc, but have the effect and duration decreased. The ratios should be relatively high, though, so he has a move that can be saved for last when it comes to maxing and still be a relevant part of his playstyle.


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ReneReborn

Member

11-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
How did you stick to them long enough to GET a permaslow?
I also build Shurelya's Reverie for fun.


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Shahamut

Senior Member

11-13-2013

Bump* still waiting for a Riot response.


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LaFreeze

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Senior Member

11-13-2013

Just the opinions of a casual player who likes Skarner.

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
His ultimate. While the rest of his kit is not to dismissed, and I enjoy its synergy it is definitely his ultimate that defines this champion.

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
I feel he isn't tanky enough and runs through mana way to fast. Skarner frequently takes too much damage popping his armor and leaving him unable to reach or chase his prey. Much less use his armor combined with small heals to sustain him in lane vs ranged opponents.

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
It feels like there isn't much in the way of counter play to his ultimate. Most attacks that move you around the field require positioning on the part of the enemy, like poppy's push. In Skarner's case he can just run up, grab you and drag you out of position and there isn't really much you can do about it.

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
Yes, Shyvana & Lee Sin. Skarner often lacks a way to get a kill when his ultimate is down and outside of the jungle it is difficult to auto-attack enough to lower its cool down. Shyvana may lack the sustain that Skarner has but since is tankier and lacks mana requirement she make much better use of the auto-attack mechanic. She pokes harders, hits harder and secures kills more easily.

Lee Sin likewise has much better sustain and his mobility makes it easy to set up his ultimate to knock enemies out of position.

Both these champions have more synergy in their kits, and are more tanky (In Lee Sin's case better sustain too), and have no worries about mana allowing them to have strong early games. In generally though I just think they have tighter kits with better tweaked abilities. Shyvana for example effective has a half extra power since her auto attacks benefit two of her abilities yet doesn't take up her passive slot. Skarner's passive could easily be made to a passive effect of his Q and then replace his actual passive slot with something to round out and bind his kit together.

Also he could use some better skins.


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Ntencti

Senior Member

11-13-2013

Why would you remove Skarners heal? its just dumb. It seems to me Riot likes to dumb down every champion and then compensate them with something stupid.


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Karede

Senior Member

11-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaFreeze View Post

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
Yes, Shyvana & Lee Sin. Skarner often lacks a way to get a kill when his ultimate is down and outside of the jungle it is difficult to auto-attack enough to lower its cool down. Shyvana may lack the sustain that Skarner has but since is tankier and lacks mana requirement she make much better use of the auto-attack mechanic. She pokes harders, hits harder and secures kills more easily.

Lee Sin likewise has much better sustain and his mobility makes it easy to set up his ultimate to knock enemies out of position.

Both these champions have more synergy in their kits, and are more tanky (In Lee Sin's case better sustain too), and have no worries about mana allowing them to have strong early games. In generally though I just think they have tighter kits with better tweaked abilities. Shyvana for example effective has a half extra power since her auto attacks benefit two of her abilities yet doesn't take up her passive slot. Skarner's passive could easily be made to a passive effect of his Q and then replace his actual passive slot with something to round out and bind his kit together.

Also he could use some better skins.
Well thought out post. Skarner's passive is amazing. What if they moved the passive to E so that there is a reason for us to invest in the skill and then gave a different passive?

I don't necessarily love that change, but I love it in comparison to the changes currently in place.

Please do not take away permaslow, it's what makes the champion work. Without Permaslow, Skarner will be a worthless champ.


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LaFreeze

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Senior Member

11-14-2013

After discussing the matter with a friend, I though I'd share some additional insight that they added. I don't 100% agree but I think they brought up some fair points that would be worth opening up to a wider discussion.

Allow me to paraphrase:

The person who really does Skarner's job better than Skarner is Darius. Skarner all about being a tanky melee who clears waves quickly and messes with the enemy positions. Well Darius does this about a 1000 times better than Skarner.

To elaborate here, there are two types of Ultimates in this game. Ultimates which act as finishers, which typically just enchance the existing kits (Leona, Zyra, Fizz, Ziggs etc. etc.) and ultimates which define the kit (Teemo & Kassadin) and change the way the champion is played.

Skarner doesn't know which one he wants to be. Skarner is all about dragging people out of position, yet it also tries to do a bunch of damage and ends up not doing either very well. If you tag a squishie, you shouldn't bother pulling them around you should just hold them and do as much DPS as you can to kill them quickly, in which case a stun would be 100% better than a drag. If you use this on a tank or something tanky, then again most of the time it would be better to let some low damage support stun and save your ultimate for a better target in a team fight. Skarner would be much better off having his drag, and his finisher separated out so he could freely pull people around during the early game and kill squishes in teamfights.

Daruis, but having this same sort of pull move on his E, is free to mess with enemy position constantly and save his ultimate for the proper team fight application. Additionally thanks to Darius's bleed, ability to ignore up to 25% of his targets armor and huge amounts of true damage on his finisher does way better damage than Skarner's hybrid AP/AD split damage while being able to build strictly tanky AD. Darius can stack hemorrhage to refresh his slow, which combined with his pull keeps his prey in easy reach for the kill. Darius's passive is more useful and better ties into his abilities, particularly his ultimate and unlike Skarner his kit is never at odds with itself and can even refresh itself in the middle of a fight it executed right, which is way better than skarner's 1 second discount per hit which will never refresh his ultimate in time. Skarner's passive is a joke when most champions have better ways to refresh abilites build into their kit, and don't have "pay" for it with unreasonably long cool downs. Trying to keep Skarner's armor up for example is almost possible if you are being bullied in the slightest. If I want a tanky DPS who can jerk people out of position and keep them there Darius gets the job does in ways Skarner only wishes he could.


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Sightless66

Senior Member

11-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaFreeze View Post
The person who really does Skarner's job better than Skarner is Darius. Skarner all about being a tanky melee who clears waves quickly and messes with the enemy positions. Well Darius does this about a 1000 times better than Skarner.
This is correct, but it also isn't the entire story. If you need someone who pulls an enemy and kills them, then Darius will do that job better than Skarner. However, you could also need someone to peel melee enemies away from your carries or to disrupt a teamfight, and you could need someone to help lock up a single target assassins are diving. These are both roles that Skarner beats Darius at because of his permaslow and movement speed. However, Skarner is inferior at both of these roles compared to other options. He is inferior at peel compared to Sej, Naut or Maokai, he is inferior at disruption compared to Xin or Hecarim, and he is inferior at dive and assassin protection when compared to Jarvan or Vi or even (situationally) Maokai. The problem isn't just that Darius does Skarner's job better than Skarner. The problem is that everyone does some aspect of Skarner's job better than Skarner.