A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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SPARTAN 111

Senior Member

11-10-2013

Yeah I'm quite scared about the whole bush and passive nerf, but I think since we'll have our ult on a more usual basis we'll be able to cope with it, although I would like the bonetooth passive range bonus to be a little more than what it is now, nerfing 1/3 off of its range is a liittle too much because that tiny bit of range would be very beneficial for major juking capabilities, either that or atleast make his new 9th bonetooth ability to have better speed than the stupid phage please, if Rengar is truly the predator that seeks blood and trophies, then he's going to REEALLY want the kill, so after ulting without camo, becoming blood drunk in the way it will probably look, he will want to proceed going fast after he leaps, at least with 9 bonetooth stacks, idk. Good luck on the rework, can't wait!!


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Vicarious117

Senior Member

11-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by THUNDERMINE View Post
...and made his weak bola skillshot....
Well out of what I've heard and read the slow on his new skill shot bolas will not only be much better on hit but won't decay now. Meaning it won't be the worst slowing ability in the game anymore, which I like. Not too mention apparently it's supposed to scale MUCH better with AD, meaning it'll still do good damage without having to max it first.

And ofc I LOVE the skillshot change, cause now Rengar doesn't HAVE to facecheck bushes and ward over walls to know if something is there (jungle creeps/buffs mainly), he can throw the bolas over walls and the like to start camps earlier, check bushes for enemies, and even finish foes who've escaped over a wall.

Speaking of which, Rengar would be SO MUCH FUN in jungle if when he landed bolas on something it gave him vision, allowing for him to leap to that target or target near it if he's in a bush. Counter jungling would be so much fun if that happened! I mean Lee Sin already has that ability sorta, but a bush isn't even required, so there is no way this could be considered OP lol Ofc I'm sure you all realize I mean like throw his bolas over a wall and be able to leap to the target ofc, thought I'd clarify before someone said "HE CAN LEAP FROM THE BUSH ANYWAYYYYZ!" or something like that :P

The only worry I have about the bola changes is that you won't have it as a laning ability anymore. No more ranged CSing from afar while behind, no more poking abilities to trade ranged champs with, and things like that. So his AD reduction on his W and it's damage will have to be very strong in order to keep his trading potential even decent, cause even if his new "Q train" trading tactics are great, if he's behind and against someone like Renekton or Kayle it won't matter for ANYTHING, you'll have to sit at turret and wait for them to push lane and pray they don't dive you.

Hmm..... now that I'm adding everything together, i.e. bush changes, bola changes, burst changes, etc..... laning Rengar seems..... super UP lol I mainly jungle him so that doesn't matter too much to me, but lane Rengar against champs like vlad, zed, and mundo is SO fun atm, would be sad to see it completely disappear


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SPARTAN 111

Senior Member

11-11-2013

How about we make his bola strike both skill shot and targetted? Like if you want you can switch the mode of your skillshot depending on how far you need to throw it, or switching it to targeted for how precise it needs to be. Seems too difficult to do but it WOULD boost his utility a bit idk


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Vicarious117

Senior Member

11-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARTAN 111 View Post
How about we make his bola strike both skill shot and targetted? Like if you want you can switch the mode of your skillshot depending on how far you need to throw it, or switching it to targeted for how precise it needs to be. Seems too difficult to do but it WOULD boost his utility a bit idk
That's just WAY too complicated, and by allowing it to be targeted still they wouldn't be able to buff the damage and AD ratio like they plan to do with the skill shot version, same with the slow, it would have to remain roughly the same if the targeted version was still an option.

I simply think they need to add an AD ratio to his W like Aatrox has on his E, meaning you can use it as your ranged harass and farming ability. The AD reduction would also help reduce harass when you're behind, meaning the range doesn't need to be changed on it.


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Coocookachu

Senior Member

11-11-2013

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Originally Posted by RakshirX View Post
Normally I'd agree with what you're saying, but Rengar is a special case. He has a gap closer for an ultimate, or if he's near a bush, but he has no means to escape, or protect himself. Other assassin's, like someone mentioned before about Akali, can shroud themselves in a protective field, or escape with a leap or dash after making an assassination attempt. Rengar cannot do this. This means, you either give him a means of quick escape, or you allow him to protect himself. In a teamfight, he is, as many here have stated, screwed. He targets the adc and then dies, whether he makes the kill or not. There should be more latitude than this. Personally, I like being a dmg bomb, but a means of survival would be nice.
meow


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SPARTAN 111

Senior Member

11-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicarious117 View Post
That's just WAY too complicated, and by allowing it to be targeted still they wouldn't be able to buff the damage and AD ratio like they plan to do with the skill shot version, same with the slow, it would have to remain roughly the same if the targeted version was still an option.

I simply think they need to add an AD ratio to his W like Aatrox has on his E, meaning you can use it as your ranged harass and farming ability. The AD reduction would also help reduce harass when you're behind, meaning the range doesn't need to be changed on it.
Yes increasing the damage on his W would be awesome, it feels like it does literally NO damage, I max it last and I hardly see myself healing from it nowadays, I feel a whole lot more damage should be put into his w so that after I fury q once I can quickly throw some more moves together and kill my opponent with an empowered battle roar :P


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Kyndig IV

Junior Member

11-12-2013

I don't know if Scarizard still checks this thread, but I figure I might as well put in my two cents.

I've followed the rework for a while and was terrified at the orgional plans for the champ, but i've been relatively happy with the direction they have gone lately. what i would like to see, is for the Q to have some sort of bleed effect on it, ditch the attack speed which is causing problems with shredding towers and champions and stack his damage into a DOT.

it opens up more possibilities to his kit like adding a vision effect for the empowered bleed, or increased movement speed towards bleeding targets.

i just think refunding 3 ferocity is kind of anti-climactic when you jump in and double Q, id rather see them run off into the bushes and bleed to death, or track them from their bleeding. then have some bonus ferocity.


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Vicarious117

Senior Member

11-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyndig IV View Post
I don't know if Scarizard still checks this thread, but I figure I might as well put in my two cents.

I've followed the rework for a while and was terrified at the orgional plans for the champ, but i've been relatively happy with the direction they have gone lately. what i would like to see, is for the Q to have some sort of bleed effect on it, ditch the attack speed which is causing problems with shredding towers and champions and stack his damage into a DOT.

it opens up more possibilities to his kit like adding a vision effect for the empowered bleed, or increased movement speed towards bleeding targets.

i just think refunding 3 ferocity is kind of anti-climactic when you jump in and double Q, id rather see them run off into the bushes and bleed to death, or track them from their bleeding. then have some bonus ferocity.
That is actually a FANTASTIC idea! In my opinion at least.

Personally though I like the 3 stacks of ferocity on empowered Q, especially now with the usage of your stacks when you ult, this allows you to literally train Qs on people, increasing your trading potential.

So I think they should remove the speed buff on his regular Q, like you said, and add that bleeding effect instead to both Qs. Then make it so you can stack the bleeds similar to darius and the more your opponent bleeds the faster you move towards them, like Vaynes passive, but only towards bleeding targets. It fits his lore, THE HUNTER, and especially now with his one shotting kind of damage being removed he needs SOMETHING to make him scary.

That would also improve his laning ability, making his trades MUCH stronger and bringing his laning viability back. The vision on the bleeds will also help him with the new bush layouts in lanes, so he wouldn't be constantly losing sight of his opponent and not being able to leap to targets.

And like you said it would help reduce his ridiculous tower killing potential, one of the things the devs have said is something they want to fix.

It might hurt his jungling SLIGHTLY because attack speed is generally better for camp clearing, however due to the "Q train" it shouldn't matter all too much, especially if his health and health regen are buffed back to a reasonable stat lol

OMG I really hope they do still look at this thread! Bleeds on Rengar would be amazing! Also allow him to be tankier and more bruiser like, the role he was originally supposed to fill before they screwed up his stats due to double casting.


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SPARTAN 111

Senior Member

11-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicarious117 View Post
That is actually a FANTASTIC idea! In my opinion at least.

Personally though I like the 3 stacks of ferocity on empowered Q, especially now with the usage of your stacks when you ult, this allows you to literally train Qs on people, increasing your trading potential.

So I think they should remove the speed buff on his regular Q, like you said, and add that bleeding effect instead to both Qs. Then make it so you can stack the bleeds similar to darius and the more your opponent bleeds the faster you move towards them, like Vaynes passive, but only towards bleeding targets. It fits his lore, THE HUNTER, and especially now with his one shotting kind of damage being removed he needs SOMETHING to make him scary.

That would also improve his laning ability, making his trades MUCH stronger and bringing his laning viability back. The vision on the bleeds will also help him with the new bush layouts in lanes, so he wouldn't be constantly losing sight of his opponent and not being able to leap to targets.

And like you said it would help reduce his ridiculous tower killing potential, one of the things the devs have said is something they want to fix.

It might hurt his jungling SLIGHTLY because attack speed is generally better for camp clearing, however due to the "Q train" it shouldn't matter all too much, especially if his health and health regen are buffed back to a reasonable stat lol

OMG I really hope they do still look at this thread! Bleeds on Rengar would be amazing! Also allow him to be tankier and more bruiser like, the role he was originally supposed to fill before they screwed up his stats due to double casting.
please no, this would DESTROY his potential of killing blue buff or red buff by a TREMENDOUS amount, they're trying to improve his jungling potential, in my opinion that would just ruin everything that is Rengar, and turn him into a Darius ripoff, unless of course the bleed slows them...


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Vicarious117

Senior Member

11-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARTAN 111 View Post
please no, this would DESTROY his potential of killing blue buff or red buff by a TREMENDOUS amount, they're trying to improve his jungling potential, in my opinion that would just ruin everything that is Rengar, and turn him into a Darius ripoff, unless of course the bleed slows them...
Well let the bleeds stack on blue and red buff as well, with a Q train and low cooldown on Q it should make killing them just as easy, no?

And I'm not saying to just make his Qs bleed appliers, I'm just saying instead of the attack speed from just his regular Q (since it's already being removed from the empowered Q), apply a bleeding effect on BOTH Qs, while keeping the bonus damage based on AD on the next auto attack used after activation, with the bleeds either scaling on damage done or on base or % AD itself.

This will keep the bleed relevant throughout the entirety of the game and not just early game trades like Darius, but the Q still gets it's bonus damage so the burst is still going to be there, except with bleeds you wouldn't have to chase them down with a faster auto attack speed but you can walk away and let the bleeds do the damage you need before taking counter harass. And due to the speed increase when chasing if you can continue to win the trade without over extending or anything it'll be much easier for you to stay on target. And once again due to the "Q train" you can continually deal straight damage as well as keep up bleed damage.

I mean Talon has a bleed, Brand has a burn, Teemo has a poison, and they're all still unique champs with their own playstyles, so why would adding a bleed on top of the burst from his Q make Rengar a Darius copy when none of the other DOT dealing champs are? With this you could even build Rengar as a bursty assassin instead of a tank/bruiser like Darius and Riot wouldn't have to worry about his one shots cause you can jump in, stack some bleeds, and leave. With Hydra maybe even stack bleeds on everyone and walk away from teamfights instead of having to continuously auto attack people in order to make use of the full Q potential.

Idk, it seems like a good idea to me, so explain to me why it would not. If I'm missing something let me know, and if I am I'm sure Scarizard knows it as well and will obviously just ignore this anyway, so you'd have nothing to worry about lol But please if I am missing something let me know so I can simply drop the thought :P

EDIT: Oh, and I think adding a slow to the bleed would make his bolas obsolete and make him quite OP, a speedy cat with up front damage and a strong DOT that you could never escape from lol I'd love it, but the nerfs would come FLYING in and probably force him into a Darius type role, bringing about your, and MY, worst fears :P