Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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Karede

Senior Member

11-08-2013

Tryndamere's slow: 60% slow, 4 second duration, 14 second cooldown, similar auto attack synergy

Nunu's Slow: 60% slow, 3 second duration 6 second cooldown, burst damage

AAtrox slow: 50% slow, 2.75 second duration, exact same range (1000), 8 second cooldown

Sejuani slow: 70% slow, 2.5 second duration, 11 second cooldown

Rammus's slow: 40% slow, 3 second duration, 10 second cooldown

Nasus's slow: 95% slow, 5 second duration, 11 second cooldown

Skarner's new slow: 50% slow, 2.5 second duration, 1000 range, 10 second cooldown

Skarner's old slow: 40% slow, 2 second duration, 3 second cooldown



It's crazy to me how anybody would think they haven't completely ruined Skarner with these changes. ALL of the above champions are going to do better in ganks than Skarner now. He will be kited more easily than Tryndamere now, with little to no burst damage.

This is like taking away Nautalis's pull and giving him attack speed. It's like taking away Akali's pool from her. It's like taking away Shaco's invisibility and making his boxes visible traps. This is like making Ahri's charm a slow. It's like taking Rammus's taunt away and giving him attack speed. This is like taking away Lux's snare, or morgana's.

Skarner's Q is about a defining characteristic as there is in the game: he is completely built around making it hard to get close to and lock in the slow, but with a high reward for doing it afterwards.

Now he will be one of (If not the most) easily kiteable champions in the game. ALL his damage is based on the ability to do consistent damage over a period of time. ALL of his kit was based around his Q.


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Karede

Senior Member

11-08-2013

Xin Zhao- 45% slow, 2 second duration, 10 second cooldown with the option of lowering it to 7 (if you use his Q to do so) This skill also closes gaps, xin has extreme burst with his Q and a pop up with his burst skill on a 5 second cooldown. He also has automatic attack speed out of his W, up to 80% (with a heal attached to it)

The list goes on...

Volibear - 50% slow, 3 second duration, 11 second cooldown. Tons of burst, a throwback (gapclose) and automatic extra attack speed instead of attack speed tied to charges. (albeit similar in the way it builds up)

Rengar - 70% slow, 2.5 second duration. 8 second cooldown. Does rengar have burst? LOLOLOL yes..


Can I get a riot post please? I am wracking my brain trying to see how ruining Skarner's identity was ok because of a 20% attack speed change (not a buff, btw, a change) and a movement speed increase (which can be popped, still).

You took away his very best skill, gave him a crappy ranged slow in comparison to the rest of the cast, and then added some movement speed (17%) and gave him LESS total attack speed. (24% max, down from 50%)

THIS IS NOT A BUFF... This is a gigantic slap to the nads with the nerf bat to the 2nd least played champion in the game...

PLEASE EXPLAIN SCRUFFY


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Karede

Senior Member

11-08-2013

cho'gath - 60% slow, 4 second duration, 8 second cooldown, also pops them up for 1 second

maokai - 48% slow, 2 second duration, 6 second cooldown, also knocks back champions and does MORE damage than skarners E

Lee sin - 60 slow, 4 second duration, 10 second cooldown

malphite - 26% slow, 4 second duration, 26% movement speed GAINED for 4 seconds, 8 second cooldown

Zac - 40% slow, 2 second duration, 7 second cooldown


Honestly, what the heck are you talking about calling this a buff?

PLEASE EXPLAIN SCRUFFY


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Karede

Senior Member

11-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by venomxl View Post
Scruffy- You still haven't answered my question, which should be the most important question of the rework: Why pick Skarner over the viable junglers? What does he bring that Zac, Aatrox, Elise, Jarvan, Lee, etc. can't? If you can't answer that question, then he's not viable.

Tweaking a shield by 5 won't change that. You're hosing his sticktuitiveness, taking away his heal, his immediate move speed, his immediate attack speed, and giving back what exactly? This rework. is. making. him. worse.

His CC is worse. His dueling is worse.
This guy knows what he's talking about.

RiotScruffy, I've been posting for days man, can you please respond to some of this feedback?

Skarner in your beta form does not have a "great" skill. He doesn't have a skill that stands out as better than other people's skill. He has no more damage, because he has less of a window to do damage in.

PLEASE EXPLAIN SCRUFFY


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Rakaydos

Senior Member

11-08-2013

With the new stats, I theorize a low level gank would work out like this. (with 1.0 AS and 0 CDR, but perfect timing)
Z+0s: W Shield, lasts 6 seconds, 14 second cooldown
z+2s emerge from bush
z+3.5s launch E slow just before reaching the enemy (10 seconds of cooldown to use again)
z+4s Q and first autoattack. (E has 8.5 seconds of cooldown left) Blade weaving, spell weaving, and Q have 1 stack each. W has 9s remaining
z+4.5s -momentary pause-
z+5s Autoattack. Q has .5s left, E has 6.5 seconds left. slow is good for 1 more second. Blade weaving has 2 stacks. W has 7s remaining
z+5.5s Q, Spell weaving and Q have 2 stacks each, Q has 3.5 seconds left, E has 6 seconds left, slow is good for half a second
z+6s Autoattack, Blade weaving at 3 stacks, Q has 2 seconds left, E has 4 seconds left, slow expires. W has 5s remaining. enemy pulls away.
z+9 flash, Q auto, and E.


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Shahamut

Senior Member

11-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
With the new stats, I theorize a low level gank would work out like this. (with 1.0 AS and 0 CDR, but perfect timing)
Z+0s: W Shield, lasts 6 seconds, 14 second cooldown
z+2s emerge from bush
z+3.5s launch E slow just before reaching the enemy (10 seconds of cooldown to use again)
z+4s Q and first autoattack. (E has 8.5 seconds of cooldown left) Blade weaving, spell weaving, and Q have 1 stack each. W has 9s remaining
z+4.5s -momentary pause-
z+5s Autoattack. Q has .5s left, E has 6.5 seconds left. slow is good for 1 more second. Blade weaving has 2 stacks. W has 7s remaining
z+5.5s Q, Spell weaving and Q have 2 stacks each, Q has 3.5 seconds left, E has 6 seconds left, slow is good for half a second
z+6s Autoattack, Blade weaving at 3 stacks, Q has 2 seconds left, E has 4 seconds left, slow expires. W has 5s remaining. enemy pulls away.
z+9 flash, Q auto, and E.

So what happens with less than perfect timing?


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CatchMeIHavCandy

Senior Member

11-08-2013

What I love most is his Ult and how he can drag anyone he wants out of position. The problem is that you yourself have to get out of position to do so. I love being able to just walk up to the carry, drag them into my tower/team and then have them go 100-0 in no time. The problem though is that it seldom works as well as you want it to since you have to get so close


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Shahamut

Senior Member

11-08-2013

Need some feedback from folks...

My final conclusion is this:

Fix his mana costs (lower them), lower the cooldown on his shield, and give his E a bit more range, something like shyvana's E maybe? Buff his ultimate. Maybe increase some of his AP ratios for E and W. Call it good.


Honestly, Ive been playing skarner a lot lately, and people seem to get away from my slow without too much trouble till I have better than basic boots and 3 ranks. I don't think his permaslow is game breaking at all.


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Rakaydos

Senior Member

11-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahamut View Post
So what happens with less than perfect timing?
Higher than 1.0 Attac speed gives a wider margin for error (you get your cooldown procs faster, giving you more time to hit the buttons) and the Q attack speed boost will also help with that.

10% CDR (S4 blue buff) will also bring the shiled cooldown by 1.4 seconds (again, faster attack speed combos well with this) and the slow by 1 second, which means if you gank with blue buff you should be able to flash-past at Z+8 (or 4 and a half seconds after the first slow) to auto and slow again. If you can rune 10% CDR at level 1, and gank with blue buff, there should only be about a second long gap between slows.


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ReneReborn

Member

11-08-2013

How can you even gap close or stick to a target now? The permaslow may have been frustrating towards the targeted, but it was the only method in which players could stick to a target and continue to cc after their ult.