Manamune on Panth?

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mechanikatt

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliv View Post
He's got math on his side! Valid points are op! How do you start with Pant?
Flask, ward, pot for longer laning.
Red Elixir, 2healthpots, 1manapot for early kill.
Longsword, 2 health pots in the rare case where I can just farm and get bruta early (against Shen, Zac, Nasus)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eliv

Player Support Tech Specialist

11-07-2013
4 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanikatt View Post
Flask, ward, pot for longer laning.
Red Elixir, 2healthpots, 1manapot for early kill.
Longsword, 2 health pots in the rare case where I can just farm and get bruta early (against Shen, Zac, Nasus)
I've definitely done Red Elixir to assure the level 3 kill. I can't stand starting out Long Sword 'cause little sustain. I'm gonna try Flask out in my next few games with him and see how it goes! Thanks for the advice!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mechanikatt

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyl View Post
You can also get a Spirit of Elder Lizard which helps you alot for the early-mid game. Plus your fairie charm isn't going to wastes.
Spirit of the Elder Lizard will be a more frequent staple on Pantheon if it stays like it is on PBE right now (more true damage and bonus gold from kills and assists), but I would still not start with the spirit stone. You need damage before (weak) regen items.

Potions OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliv View Post
I've definitely done Red Elixir to assure the level 3 kill. I can't stand starting out Long Sword 'cause little sustain. I'm gonna try Flask out in my next few games with him and see how it goes! Thanks for the advice!
No prob, always happy to help out fellow Panth enthusiasts. Hope it works for you. Good luck


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Weirding

Senior Member

11-07-2013

I think if you sell the charm back, you come out ahead as compared to the mana potions.

The difference is that the potions give you the mana NOW, as opposed to the Charm, which requires you to meter your spear usage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mechanikatt

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weirding View Post
I think if you sell the charm back, you come out ahead as compared to the mana potions.

The difference is that the potions give you the mana NOW, as opposed to the Charm, which requires you to meter your spear usage.
If the extra mana from the potions allows you to spam hard enough to get as much as a single kill, the argument is over because you just got 30 minutes worth of mana potions right there.

Also, keep in mind the charm also regenerates during useless times (when recalled, full mana, walking back to lane), so more realistic would be to say you have 20 minutes worth of mana potions for the cost of a single charm.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vacus

Senior Member

11-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanikatt View Post
Faerie Charm is not worth it. Ever.

180g for 3mana/5 vs. 5 mana potions (35g each for 100 mana)
500 mana from potions vs 3mana/5 from charn means you'll reach same amount of mana from charm after 166.6666*5 seconds, which is 833.3333 seconds, which is 14 minutes.

THATS RIGHT. FAERIE CHARM'S GOLD EQUIVALENT WORTH IN MANA POTIONS BREAKS EVEN AFTER 14 MINUTES.

Tl;dr: don't buy faerie charm on Panth.
Math is slightly misleading because it assumes you don't sell the Faerie Charm.

Faerie Charm costs 180 gold and has a sell value of 126 gold. The total amount of gold you lose by buying one and selling it later is 54.

At 35g per mana pot, you can buy only ONE mana potion for the same 'consumable cost' as Faerie Charm. Let's be generous and give you two instead (which is an expenditure of 70g vs the 54 of the Charm).

Mana potions provide you with a more focused burst of mana regeneration at the cost of greater gold expended. Faerie Charm is the cheaper alternative.

Two mana potions restores 200 mana. Faerie Charm's 3 mana per 5 reaches 200 mana at 333.33 seconds, or roughly 5 and a half minutes. (The break even point for a single mana potion is roughly 2.75 minutes.)


TL: DR; Faerie Charm is an acceptable buy on Pantheon or anyone else if you plan to abuse the fact that its sell cost is a very large fraction of its buy cost. (The same is true of Rejuv Bead, by the way.)


edit: I agree with you, by the way, that mana potions are usually the better choice for their ability to grant you mana when you need it instead of mana over time. That, however, is not always true, and there are situations where you want more mana over time for less money. I certainly don't think it's something you should do every game (or even most games); if you need sustain flask should be able to cover you, and a single mana pot can patch up a lot of cracks.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

emTmyclipin2u

Senior Member

11-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanikatt View Post
Faerie Charm is not worth it. Ever.

180g for 3mana/5 vs. 5 mana potions (35g each for 100 mana)
500 mana from potions vs 3mana/5 from charn means you'll reach same amount of mana from charm after 166.6666*5 seconds, which is 833.3333 seconds, which is 14 minutes.

THATS RIGHT. FAERIE CHARM'S GOLD EQUIVALENT WORTH IN MANA POTIONS BREAKS EVEN AFTER 14 MINUTES.

Tl;dr: don't buy faerie charm on Panth.
until you add in the gold you get from selling it. Then it becomes 54 gold for 3 Mana/5 vs approximately one mana potion (exactly 154 mana in pots, using the formula 100 mana/35 gold*54 gold). This means charm becomes cost effective at exactly 4 minutes and 17 seconds of mana regen if you are selling it. You could also go into the argument of backing penalty, whereby starting with a fairy charm gives a constant supply of mana, whereas unless you are doing some weird start like cloth 5 mana pots, you are going to have to back to get those mana potions, which gives you full mana anyways, and results in a possible loss of farm and exp.

This same statistic applies to health regen as well, and I can personally vouch that health regen as a passive stat is much more useful than the numbers would state (see, Dorans shield, which is taken into matchups where its passive gets very little use and is still strong, purely due to regen). A small difference is that generally health potions are taken with health regen items, whereas in the case of someone like pantheon, you're going to end up with one or the other.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MIX MIX SWIRL

Senior Member

11-07-2013

maybe just start flask if you have mana issues


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Coded Words

Junior Member

11-08-2013

Thank you all for your replies. I will mix and match everything you have all brought up and see what works for me best. Good luck in your future games!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Warrrrax

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-08-2013

I would avoid Tear because Panth does not need THAT much extra mana. Most toplaners start building health or armor or damage or sustain. Taking a mana item for 700g really puts you at a disadvantage vs anyone that can gapclose and trade with you. Plus no health sustain other than pots hurts too.

An option for the Faery start is to turn it into a Spirit Stone, then spirit of the golem eventually. While Stone has the same issue as above, it provides a lot of HP5 sustain, and a lot of mana. The Golem is an excellent single defensive item for Panth, giving a lot of health in a very cost effective manner.
Lizard works well too, but Golem is more efficient.

Then do the usual Brutalizer, Last Whisper, AD caster goodness.