@SmashGizmo, Morello, and/or Phreak

First Riot Post
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Ozbirta

Senior Member

11-04-2013

Stomped pretty hard with him rushing hydra from the jungle role. Basically Aatrox with a bit better chase-down-and-kill potential, but less blow-you-up-right-now potential.

Need to do more testing, but I think I like him now.


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Spearball

Senior Member

11-04-2013

Hue


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UATderpyderp

Senior Member

11-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashGizmo View Post
It seems he's seeing some picks and bans in the NACL and ALCS, mostly centered around using him as a counter to Jax, and his pick rate and win rate in all queues both seem to have gotten markedly better with this last patch. It's early to say anything definitive about his current balance state, but all the early data from this patch is leaving me optimistic that he's somewhat close to a good spot.

From my personal experiences in solo queue, I'm finding that I have trouble being effective vs. Jarvan, Nidalee and Vayne and that's frustrating me due to their popularity in my games, but I feel very powerful when those characters aren't present.

I think his jungle is hurting a little bit right now, but I do think it's playable and I think the upcoming pre-season changes will help him out in the jungle considerably. Right now he's just having trouble hitting the level of farm he needs out of the jungle.
So you're happy with his kit then? He might hit power balance at some point, but the way it's right now, you put his skill ceiling near the floor. He isn't really satisfying to play as it is, and is too straightforward for anything interesting outside of the "I outlevel you / I have more gold than you, therefore I'll be able to kill you" mindset.

I'm not playing him anymore, and yes I know I'm a single player. but perhaps you'll consider it at some point if you ever rework another champ.


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Isysar

Senior Member

11-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashGizmo View Post
It seems he's seeing some picks and bans in the NACL and ALCS, mostly centered around using him as a counter to Jax, and his pick rate and win rate in all queues both seem to have gotten markedly better with this last patch. It's early to say anything definitive about his current balance state, but all the early data from this patch is leaving me optimistic that he's somewhat close to a good spot.

From my personal experiences in solo queue, I'm finding that I have trouble being effective vs. Jarvan, Nidalee and Vayne and that's frustrating me due to their popularity in my games, but I feel very powerful when those characters aren't present.

I think his jungle is hurting a little bit right now, but I do think it's playable and I think the upcoming pre-season changes will help him out in the jungle considerably. Right now he's just having trouble hitting the level of farm he needs out of the jungle.
Thank you for the reply!!! I was unaware of the NACL and ALCS, and that he was being used as a counter to Jax. Very interesting. I'd like to see him played more.


Speaking of your personal experience in solo queue, You know, I actually made this thread after watching you play Olaf in the client last night. The game you were laning against Renekton, and were trying to kill a Vayne. You played well (better than me (and now I'm laying on the flattery thick lol)), but Olaf didn't seem very effective at all vs Vayne. I agree that Jarvan, Vayne and Nid are really almost hard counters to him. I have nothing but a spew of curse words in relation to Vayne however.

Looking over your match history with Olaf on elobuff.com, are you happy with how little AD Olaf can build in practice? You clearly restructured his kit on AD (worse without bonus AD, but stronger with, but the only item's I've ever seen you be able to build in practice is a BotRK and a Doran's blade. The crippling penalty of being a melee non-assassin champion is that you must build basically straight tank or you die long before you do anything. Considering how incredibly kitable he is outside of his ult (and how squishy he is with his ult on), do you think he's doing enough damage?

I would like to jungle Olaf again, but you're right on the farm from the jungle. I'll have to wait and see.


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Isysar

Senior Member

11-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashGizmo View Post
NACL Curse vs. GGLa (1:27:00ish): http://www.twitch.tv/naclesports/b/475371990
ALCS (picked in first 2 games, start around 15:00): http://www.twitch.tv/10ktournaments/b/475682158
Thank you so much for providing these!!! I'm stoked to watch some Olaf games!


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Epichuntarz

Senior Member

11-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashGizmo View Post
It seems he's seeing some picks and bans in the NACL and ALCS, mostly centered around using him as a counter to Jax, and his pick rate and win rate in all queues both seem to have gotten markedly better with this last patch. It's early to say anything definitive about his current balance state, but all the early data from this patch is leaving me optimistic that he's somewhat close to a good spot..
Going from a solid "lowest win rate" to a solid "2nd to last win rate" in solo queue over the last week doesn't make me terribly...optimistic.


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Grimwohl

Senior Member

11-05-2013

I think you guys forgot about ZILEAN??


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SmashGizmo

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QA Analyst

11-05-2013
3 of 3 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isysar View Post
Thank you for the reply!!! I was unaware of the NACL and ALCS, and that he was being used as a counter to Jax. Very interesting. I'd like to see him played more.


Speaking of your personal experience in solo queue, You know, I actually made this thread after watching you play Olaf in the client last night. The game you were laning against Renekton, and were trying to kill a Vayne. You played well (better than me (and now I'm laying on the flattery thick lol)), but Olaf didn't seem very effective at all vs Vayne. I agree that Jarvan, Vayne and Nid are really almost hard counters to him. I have nothing but a spew of curse words in relation to Vayne however.

Looking over your match history with Olaf on elobuff.com, are you happy with how little AD Olaf can build in practice? You clearly restructured his kit on AD (worse without bonus AD, but stronger with, but the only item's I've ever seen you be able to build in practice is a BotRK and a Doran's blade. The crippling penalty of being a melee non-assassin champion is that you must build basically straight tank or you die long before you do anything. Considering how incredibly kitable he is outside of his ult (and how squishy he is with his ult on), do you think he's doing enough damage?

I would like to jungle Olaf again, but you're right on the farm from the jungle. I'll have to wait and see.
Yea, I'm fairly happy with how he's able to build in practice. I think Hydra's the optimal first offensive item on him in terms of potential, but I find myself building BotRK because it gives you reliable sticking power and a very potent turn around heal when used when low HP with W (and it still syngergizes well with high AS). I do think he does enough damage on 1 offensive item right now and it largely feels like a toss up between the reliability of BotRK vs. the crazy high-end potential on Hydra. I also think Maw of Malmortius is pretty crazy on the guy, but I rarely feel like I can build it except vs. double AP teams since Spirit Visage is usually enough MR to keep you covered and he benefits so greatly from everything on visage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epichuntarz View Post
Going from a solid "lowest win rate" to a solid "2nd to last win rate" in solo queue over the last week doesn't make me terribly...optimistic.
I'm guessing you're talking about last week when the week long data on lolking was still taking his winrate from last patch into the average. Now that the buffs have been out for a week, he's moved up to ~46-47% (13th lowest right now, but that data is constantly fluctuating) and that's still likely to move around some more as people get used to playing as/against Olaf again. It's also worth noting that we don't balance strictly around winrate because winrate doesn't tell the whole story of a champion's power, i.e. Olaf was sub 50% overall and still a giant problem in competitive when he was originally nerfed


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thumbnail9

Senior Member

11-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashGizmo View Post
Yea, I'm fairly happy with how he's able to build in practice. I think Hydra's the optimal first offensive item on him in terms of potential, but I find myself building BotRK because it gives you reliable sticking power and a very potent turn around heal when used when low HP with W (and it still syngergizes well with high AS). I do think he does enough damage on 1 offensive item right now and it largely feels like a toss up between the reliability of BotRK vs. the crazy high-end potential on Hydra. I also think Maw of Malmortius is pretty crazy on the guy, but I rarely feel like I can build it except vs. double AP teams since Spirit Visage is usually enough MR to keep you covered and he benefits so greatly from everything on visage.


I'm guessing you're talking about last week when the week long data on lolking was still taking his winrate from last patch into the average. Now that the buffs have been out for a week, he's moved up to ~46-47% (13th lowest right now, but that data is constantly fluctuating) and that's still likely to move around some more as people get used to playing as/against Olaf again. It's also worth noting that we don't balance strictly around winrate because winrate doesn't tell the whole story of a champion's power, i.e. Olaf was sub 50% overall and still a giant problem in competitive when he was originally nerfed
Olaf has also always countered Jax. I like that people have picked him up as a straight counter to him when they can't get Renekton. However, the champions he is actually good against is almost limited to Jax but you see a lot of Jax in everywhere.

I think whats happening with Olaf and Hydra is that Hydra actually fills in the healing gap he had previously from the missing spell vamp. Obviously the healing with the splash W is a immense amount. Though I am worried that you made him completely reliant on it. If you look at some games with him where they didn't first item hydra he doesn't look good after the first section of lane phase when he can straight bully Jax out of lane. Also he still has catching problems if hes not completely crushing the enemy team like some games with quas (who happens to be the best top laner in that circuit).


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Captn JAKK

Senior Member

11-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashGizmo View Post
Yea, I'm fairly happy with how he's able to build in practice. I think Hydra's the optimal first offensive item on him in terms of potential, but I find myself building BotRK because it gives you reliable sticking power and a very potent turn around heal when used when low HP with W (and it still syngergizes well with high AS). I do think he does enough damage on 1 offensive item right now and it largely feels like a toss up between the reliability of BotRK vs. the crazy high-end potential on Hydra. I also think Maw of Malmortius is pretty crazy on the guy, but I rarely feel like I can build it except vs. double AP teams since Spirit Visage is usually enough MR to keep you covered and he benefits so greatly from everything on visage.


I'm guessing you're talking about last week when the week long data on lolking was still taking his winrate from last patch into the average. Now that the buffs have been out for a week, he's moved up to ~46-47% (13th lowest right now, but that data is constantly fluctuating) and that's still likely to move around some more as people get used to playing as/against Olaf again. It's also worth noting that we don't balance strictly around winrate because winrate doesn't tell the whole story of a champion's power, i.e. Olaf was sub 50% overall and still a giant problem in competitive when he was originally nerfed
500+ ranked games with Olaf at first I did not like the rework of Olaf. But after you guys promised to nerf other over powered champs Like Zed and promised to create more counter play I think I see riots vision now and its a good one. I think after Olafs last buff he has become better he is strong verse champs who want to fight him such as bruisers/assassins but a bit weaker at taking out squishes who can kite him. His win rate has gone higher now as well which makes me happy.

Also about botrk and hydra, I still think those items are terrible on Olaf. Olaf still needs to be tanky early he is very immobile and for that reason I prefer to rush armor/mr/health early on Olaf:

Top lane vs AD

Sunfire/Thornmail
visage
black cleaver
randuins
mallet

vs AP

Visage
sunfire
cleaver
randuins
mallet

Reason is Botrk and Hydra are very expensive. Olafs E uses his own Health so he still needs health in the beginning of the game his kit has enough damage early on. Late game I like to get cleaver/mallet because Cleaver gives that health/cdr/Armor pen which is HUGE for him. Hydra and Botrk don't give those stats.

So try this build out @ smashgizmo and any other Olaf players. And good work with recent Olaf buff I think he is finally getting to a good place.