Nasus VU dance question, asked for parrots as the moon also rises

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Level 9 Zubat

Senior Member

11-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Done and done.

This is still really work-in-progress though.

http://i.imgur.com/L3gxQ4P.jpg
Oh man, so far it's pretty flipping awesome.

When you finish it, please post the super-high-rez version. I forever sing your praises!


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FistOf7Dragons

Senior Member

11-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Done and done.

This is still really work-in-progress though.

http://i.imgur.com/L3gxQ4P.jpg
._. oh mah gawd das beautiful


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Boyahda

Senior Member

11-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Done and done.

This is still really work-in-progress though.

http://i.imgur.com/L3gxQ4P.jpg
I really like the way you do lips. They're all big and stuff.


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

11-03-2013
13 of 13 Riot Posts

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Originally Posted by Boyahda View Post
I really like the way you do lips. They're all big and stuff.
I tend to put very similar lips on all the women I draw. I get called out a lot on it actually :P

I enjoy something about big upper lips on women. It's sort of a thing from certain comic artists also. I guess I just gravitate towards that particular style of feature.


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Akuni

Senior Member

11-03-2013

Yet the top "discussion" in the PBE Nasus feedback threat is how unfitting the VO is. Not in a quality way but how it characterizes Nasus.

Old VO was sentient, rich of expierience and graceful. It was fitting so well as Nasus thinks of himself as a god and hence he behaved. He's also the keeper of the great library, something you'd only entrust on a very reliable, calm and thinking being.

When listening to the new VO it's way more aggressive. It sounds animalistic. Like Renekton. Not like sentient Nasus. Only 2 or 3 lines make him sound sentient, the rest are something Aatrox would say and I don't fit Aatrox in the calm sentient being box... Also the grunting on AAs... This is not graceful at all and neither is the way he attacks. It doesn't look like how a godlike being would behave.

So to sum it up, the new VO characterizes Nasus in a more animalistic way which causes a severe disconnect between ingame and lore.

Also his dance... You even called it a 'silly variant' by yourself. It doesn't fit to Nasus. It fits to the hollywood dogs who jump up while you go "oh nice doggy, do you want that ball? Do you want it?!" and then you fake a throw and watch the dog chase an invisible ball... Does that sound like Nasus? Does Riot see Nasus as a slapstick comedy character? This would make me sad! :<


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Corvic Maractis

Senior Member

11-03-2013

So we are just droping theme for funny now? Because you as the SR. Concept Artist should probably know what theme is and know that not following a theme results in a mixed message product or a generally underwhelming experience. We have two large violations to theme, first we have his Dance his dance was related to theme and fit his style, second we have his Ultimate's particles which not only have no relation to his theme but also violate their own descriptions as a sandstorm. Going by this we have a Champion who no longer has an established theme and thus violates what you (Riot) have told us is the most important aspect in Champion design. If his theme has changed then why not have just made a new champion instead, if it has not changed then what is his theme because 2 years ago you had said his theme was that of an eygptian god?


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Dies to Wolves

Senior Member

11-03-2013

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Originally Posted by Akuni View Post
Also his dance... You even called it a 'silly variant' by yourself. It doesn't fit to Nasus. It fits to the hollywood dogs who jump up while you go "oh nice doggy, do you want that ball? Do you want it?!" and then you fake a throw and watch the dog chase an invisible ball... Does that sound like Nasus? Does Riot see Nasus as a slapstick comedy character? This would make me sad! :<
To be fair, not only does he jokes "who let the dogs out, woof, woof", but if you watch the "bloopers" of the old cinematics video they have, Nasus actually does behave silly and chases a tennis ball

The problem is (besides the obvious VO change, and also removing the sand from his ultimate) not the sillyness, it's more.. how he moves. He moves wildly with his dance, which doesn't fit with him. Just like his new auto-attacks don't fit, etc.

Nasus is kind of like (but not reallY) an Elcor from mass effect, as in doesn't show many emotions. Not that he doesn't have emotions, but he always speeks softly, with a calm, pacient voice, speeks slowly, so on. Like the way he says his joke, very slowly. His current dance fits him, it's very controled. The VU dance does NOT fit him at all, less about the dance, more about HOW he dances it.

Also, his current dance fits a lot because of the egyptian theme. He is based on an egyptian god. Changing the dance is unecessary.


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Gurei Fullbuster

Senior Member

11-03-2013

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Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I think voice packs would be awesome. I honestly enjoy any content that can improve/enhance/personalize the experience. Some of this feature stuff isn't existent because we don't want to, it's because we can't necessarily make it at this time. Doesn't mean the idea is bad.
I'll be honest, the lack of official or at least supported voice packs, especially for the announcer (i.e. "An enemy has been slain!") has been a HUGE negative for me. Other MOBAs that I shall leave unnamed have had easy access to customizable voice packs for a very long time. They are a feature I really, really enjoy, and the fact that LoL still doesn't have them yet is extremely disappointing to me. I'd really like to see this prioritized!

(p.s. I have over 2.5k league games played and I enjoy playing it more than any other MOBA, so don't get the wrong impression that this is a "implement this nao or I leave!" post )


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Farranor

Senior Member

11-03-2013

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Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I don't think you're wrong at all in terms of judging the simplicity or understanding the process. If I remember correctly, this might simply have been an artistic licence choice. I don't track animation, and often the teams themselves sort of decide what dance they want to go with, but I think they just ran with the idea of the silly Vaudeville dance. I don't know if there was any particular reason aside from it being hilarious when we saw it blocked out. Some champions have a lot of thought put into emotes and dances, others sort of just.. happen. Usually it's up to the individual animator and their surrounding discipline unless there's some amazing idea floated by someone else. I guess it depends. This isn't really a case of resource allocation, I think it was more like.. "Hey, this is hilarious."
The current one is hilarious too. And, I mean, Egyptian! It's a good dance. Was there any brainstorming to expand upon the theme, or was most of the focus on coming up with brand-new ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Nasus is essentially feature complete at this point. I'm sorry, but I don't see any real chance of a traditional skin. We've had generally very positive feedback about the VO. Again, it's sad that his original VA passed away, but we felt this was a quality VO replacement.
What difficulties are involved in releasing a "traditional" skin? Even the exact current one with no touch-ups? Can there be two different model/texture/particle/etc. sets, or does everything have to be attached to a single model? I'm not sure how that works.

Where has there been any positive feedback? I literally haven't seen any.

New things are often nice, but sometimes older things acquire a sort of classiness. Like a cushy office chair compared to a fine mahogany antique chair: maybe you'd replace the antique with the new chair, but keep the antique in the den or something just because it looks great there and some people in your house are attached to it.

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Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
The forums are a component of a wide scope of feedback gathering.
And some of the other components are?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I think that's a larger UX question. Someone like Davin or Ququroon probably has more info than I. There's user testing we do, along with a ton of playtesting and general QA. I'm not really no authority so it's hard for me to say what methods we utilize.
Could be good to bring them into the discussion in the morning, or whenever possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Voice packs are a feature thing and way beyond my scope of knowledge I'm afraid.

About the particles, from what I understand, sand effects cause a lot of visual noise, and there was a lot going on already with Nasus' effects. That'd be technically a RiotDudeBro question. He'd be more fit to answer that.
I don't know about other people, of course, but I've never had an issue with Nasus' ult being noisy. I hit R, big sandstorm, I'm a god, rampage steamroll, SS the unbelievers, good times. As others have said, there are other extremely noisy effects, like Garen's new ult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I'm going to go ahead and assume not. I don't know the intracasies of the new beta site but I'm pretty sure it's not ready to extrapolate a ton of actionable feedback from yet. Just an assumption though. As for reddit, I'm relatively sure we don't actually track stuff from there. I'm talking UX and QA, that's Davin and Ququroon territory as I said. They deal with hard data.
So, where is the actionable feedback from? We're not asking this to be annoying, we really just want to know where we can be heard and have an impact. It's like /aliens or A Wizard Did It at this point: "your feedback is a drop in the bucket compared to all the people who completely agree with us, although I can't tell you who they are, but I assure you they exist." We want to be reassured that we have some sort of voice here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I'm relatively sure we have more hard data user research to draw from then just the three sources you list. Again though, I'm not in UX and not really sure what black magic they utilize to gather such data.
Black magic is funny, but when we have literally nothing else to go on (not the forums, not Reddit, etc.), it makes us wonder if there's a pile of headless chicken corpses behind Riot HQ. :P

Well, not literally, but you know what I mean. Right now, we're feeling less important than "I dunno, some dealie or other."

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I think voice packs would be awesome. I honestly enjoy any content that can improve/enhance/personalize the experience. Some of this feature stuff isn't existent because we don't want to, it's because we can't necessarily make it at this time. Doesn't mean the idea is bad.
Again, how much work would be involved in making the current content available after the VU? I realize that sometimes technical issues make such things infeasible, but this seems like the sort of thing that could be doable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Again, I'm not UX, but I'm sure there's some weighting stuff in there.. like.. X data has X amount of weight.. or something. Sorry, I wish I knew honestly. It's something I'll go bug Davin about just for the hell of it.
/bug bug bug




TL;DR: I really appreciate you coming to the forums to talk to us, but when I read what you wrote, it comes off as "your actions don't matter, they never mattered, we won't tell you whose actions matter, but they matter more than yours, and we won't tell you how to make yours matter." That feels bad.


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Akuni

Senior Member

11-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dies to Wolves View Post
To be fair, not only does he jokes "who let the dogs out, woof, woof", but if you watch the "bloopers" of the old cinematics video they have, Nasus actually does behave silly and chases a tennis ball.
Well a blooper ridicules everything with the intention to be funny... I don't think this can actually count as "happened there so it has to be right". About the joke, fair point but it is a joke - meant to be funny. Nasus can be funny but he's usually controlled (Alao seen in HOW he recitifies his joke).

I am pretty biased on this VU :< But I still think I have a fair point.