@Riot: Your jungle item changes are pretty heavy nerfs. Just thought you should know.

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Solcrushed

Live Balance Designer

11-01-2013
1 of 2 Riot Posts

The S3 jungle items were as a whole, very undercosted due to the reduced revenue stream junglers had. This could be seen by the number of times we had to nerf the items because they were so efficient that laners were just buying them in spite of the suboptimal build path and 'throwaway stats'.

The junglers in the preseason are currently more than doing well with the 'nerfed items' as they have a much improved exp and gold flow in the jungle. I realize that from looking at the numbers alone it is easy to feel that jungling has become more difficult and less rewarding but I am very confident that it is not the case.

Smite deals 80% damage but has half the cooldown. Almost all the monster stat increases were due to this one change, and I am still receiving consistent feedback that the jungle is too easy early on.
Also much less downtime and less predictability due to the new camp more than makes up for the slightly reduced rewards they offer individually.


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orghak 12

Member

11-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
The S3 jungle items were as a whole, very undercosted due to the reduced revenue stream junglers had. This could be seen by the number of times we had to nerf the items because they were so efficient that laners were just buying them in spite of the suboptimal build path and 'throwaway stats'.

The junglers in the preseason are currently more than doing well with the 'nerfed items' as they have a much improved exp and gold flow in the jungle. I realize that from looking at the numbers alone it is easy to feel that jungling has become more difficult and less rewarding but I am very confident that it is not the case.

Smite deals 80% damage but has half the cooldown. Almost all the monster stat increases were due to this one change, and I am still receiving consistent feedback that the jungle is too easy early on.
Also much less downtime and less predictability due to the new camp more than makes up for the slightly reduced rewards they offer individually.

You're pretty much saying, "ignore all actual math and logic and just listen to us because we have convinced ourselves that we are never wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence."


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Solcrushed

Live Balance Designer

11-01-2013
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by orghak 12 View Post
You're pretty much saying, "ignore all actual math and logic and just listen to us because we have convinced ourselves that we are never wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence."
No, I am saying 'your math and logic lacks about 40% of the necessary input to reach an accurate conclusion'

Which is not the OP's fault, it is due to the PBE not having the new camp and masteries at the same time with all the other changes.


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orghak 12

Member

11-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
No, I am saying 'your math and logic lacks about 40% of the necessary input to reach an accurate conclusion'

Which is not the OP's fault, it is due to the PBE not having the new camp and masteries at the same time with all the other changes.
You seem upset. There's a difference between testing this internally and it actually reaching live. Just because you've convinced yourself that your balance choices are infallible does not mean they are. Tell me, what's your sample size? Who are you using for these tests? Are they developers? Have you actually run the numbers on total Jungle income along game progression?


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Nyhvr

Senior Member

11-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
No, I am saying 'your math and logic lacks about 40% of the necessary input to reach an accurate conclusion'

Which is not the OP's fault, it is due to the PBE not having the new camp and masteries at the same time with all the other changes.
pls though

Jungle Zed isn't fun with the new jungle changes because of what the patch did to Zed

pls riot


pls


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Troy242621

Senior Member

11-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
No, I am saying 'your math and logic lacks about 40% of the necessary input to reach an accurate conclusion'

Which is not the OP's fault, it is due to the PBE not having the new camp and masteries at the same time with all the other changes.
Appreciate the insight. Looking forward to season four . Looks like farmer and carry junglers may make a comeback.


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Pokeprof

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Senior Member

11-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
No, I am saying 'your math and logic lacks about 40% of the necessary input to reach an accurate conclusion'

Which is not the OP's fault, it is due to the PBE not having the new camp and masteries at the same time with all the other changes.
Or the Wriggles upgrade for that matter. OR the new items that will, likely, be put in, or a bunch of other stuff.


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Labcown

Senior Member

11-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by orghak 12 View Post
You seem upset. There's a difference between testing this internally and it actually reaching live. Just because you've convinced yourself that your balance choices are infallible does not mean they are. Tell me, what's your sample size? Who are you using for these tests? Are they developers? Have you actually run the numbers on total Jungle income along game progression?
I don't know how you reached your conclusion that he's mad, his answer seemed very clear, calm, and clarifying to me and done out of respect honestly, because your tone so far hasn't been nearly as friendly.

It's very early to concretely decide that something like the jungle items are weak, especially without all the context laid out yet.


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DragonsEyeG

Senior Member

11-01-2013

i see jungleing becoming out of existence after the changes, riot does not know what they are doing it seems and we are going to have 2 top or 2 mid instead of a jungle champion because its not effective enough any longer against opposing champions.


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SkinnerBlade

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Member

11-01-2013

I really like golem the way it is now tbh. I don't like the HP nerf


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