Preseason Community Q&A Roundup - Vision and Supports!

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Riot Pwyff

Player Communications

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10-30-2013
2 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taint Misbehavin View Post
no, we can blame you for acting like supports having lots of gold is a big deal. who cares if they had the most gold? so they get to buy a bunch of aura/utility items to help the team. it's not like you can even turn all that extra gold into a huge vision advantage anymore because of the ward limits.
I think Supports having access to more gold than anyone else in the game is the core issue here, not that they have "lots" of gold. It's that they have access to systems that enable them to get the most gold, which is something you don't want to just give to any role or position (it's only through strategy and lane deference that you end up giving more gold to certain players).


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Riot Pwyff

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10-30-2013
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Angelas View Post
To get 'assist streaks', do you have to get a specific skill in mastery tree?
No, it's an underlying addition to the bounty system in general.


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Spinnerlink

Junior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Pwyff View Post
<div class="legacy-vbulletin"> <div class="article-body"> <p>Hey <h4>Stronger Supports &amp; Support Utility Scaling with Ability Power</h4><p><strong>Q: Will this affect some supports that like to be played in the mid lane? Some examples are Janna or Lulu that are played as mages in the mid lane, in addition to supporting in bot lane. (SoraNoChinchira) </strong></p><p><strong>A: </strong> Yes, but you're going to be out-supporting your opponent's mid laner with your new AP gains - not just bursting people down with more damage. This is a careful tuning point that we're keeping a close eye on - these champions are protectors, not just bursty mages with heals and shields!</p><p><strong>Q: How are you going to prevent supports from only buying selfish items with their new gold income? </strong></p><p><strong>A: </strong> While we don't want to force players to buy any specific items (remember, it's all about reacting to the enemy team and building accordingly), a lot of support gold is tied in with masteries and specific items that build out into support-focused itemization. That said, with our new AP utility scaling for support-oriented champions (Soraka, Lulu, Janna, etc), these sup</p> <style type="text/css"> .article-body .region-na, .article-body .region-br, .article-body .region-eune, .article-body .region-euw, .article-body .region-tr { display:none; } </style> </div> </div>
Hope I did that quoting right. Anyway regarding the Ap makes utility scale, is there a reason you didn't just make a new power source instead of ad or ap that makes utility scale instead? You could then attach this to support items. This would help balance champs that can go both support or mid. If they are mid they will proably be building more Ap then a support who would be buying the easier for the support to get, Utility power? This sounds like something people proably came up with already, Is there a reason it wouldn't work out? Is adding a new thing like ap or ad to dangerous to do?


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Riot Pwyff

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10-30-2013
4 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinnerlink View Post
Hope I did that quoting right. Anyway regarding the Ap makes utility scale, is there a reason you didn't just make a new power source instead of ad or ap that makes utility scale instead? You could then attach this to support items. This would help balance champs that can go both support or mid. If they are mid they will proably be building more Ap then a support who would be buying the easier for the support to get, Utility power? This sounds like something people proably came up with already, Is there a reason it wouldn't work out? Is adding a new thing like ap or ad to dangerous to do?

There's a few concerns - mostly surrounding the notion that even when a traditional support champion does go mid (Janna, Soraka), the amount of gameplay interaction they have with their opponent tends to be close to none. Janna is a good example here. The other thing is that if you pick a champion for their core utility but then just end up picking up piles of damage over time because you're building AP for additional utility, the feeling of "this champion is all about control" gets pushed to the way side in favor of an arms race - and then certain higher damage champions will simply outshine everyone else.

I think really pushing the divide between high utility champions (WITH MORE UTILITY) versus high damage champions is a better move here, as then we don't run into those concerns where higher damage champions simply become the go-to choice for lategame.


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MephyRunsAllDay

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Is there any supporting scaling utility with AD instead of AP? C'mon, it would be fun (tho none of our current supports really fits this).


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DragonsEyeG

Senior Member

10-30-2013

why on earth do you think limiting the number of ward someone can place down would accually HELP support players?


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orghak 12

Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Pwyff View Post
I think really pushing the divide between high utility champions (WITH MORE UTILITY) versus high damage champions is a better move here, as then we don't run into those concerns where higher damage champions simply become the go-to choice for lategame.
The idea the poster you quoted gave does exactly this. If anything making utility skill with AP does exactly the opposite of what you intended.

GG Riot refusing to admit that they got out-brained.


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Mutagenaric

Senior Member

10-30-2013

As a longtime Lux player who had to mostly drop her due to her nerfs a while back (which got worse as the assassins meta started), will we be seeing mages like her - who provide some utility, but are at their core centered around high bursts of damage in teamfight scenarios - going to be seeing even further nerfs to keep them out of the support role, since it's overall safer than assassin heaven midlane and now provides reasonable amounts of gold to boot? If so, can they also have some buffs to make them more viable in midlane again?


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questir

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Realistically talking are support tanks like Taric, Alistar, etc going to able to become the main tanks for a team?


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Sophitia

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Pwyff View Post
There's a few concerns - mostly surrounding the notion that even when a traditional support champion does go mid (Janna, Soraka), the amount of gameplay interaction they have with their opponent tends to be close to none. Janna is a good example here. The other thing is that if you pick a champion for their core utility but then just end up picking up piles of damage over time because you're building AP for additional utility, the feeling of "this champion is all about control" gets pushed to the way side in favor of an arms race - and then certain higher damage champions will simply outshine everyone else.

I think really pushing the divide between high utility champions (WITH MORE UTILITY) versus high damage champions is a better move here, as then we don't run into those concerns where higher damage champions simply become the go-to choice for lategame.
I strongly disagree here. I think Janna mid does provide many gameplay interactions, and she has an exceedingly weak early game in order for her to be able to do damage late along with her utility, she needs to be able to best her opponent and roam around the map making plays. Anyone who's seen Zekent play AP Janna mid knows he tends to run teleport for this very reason.(and she actually can't do that much damage unless she also builds another damage source, such as DFG or Lich bane).

I'm going to reiterate I've very worried you're going to ruin supports going mid because you want to pigeon hole them bot - I'm also confused because Xelnath said earlier you were planning not to do this, especially with Zilean and Janna. If you're going to nerf a part of their kit that might scale too well, consider the shield or ult scaling on Janna, not the damage sources that are already pretty minimal, and have been nerfed extensively in the past.