@Phreak, you're better off as a live balancer that shoutcaster

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Hartayke

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post

2. Sivir's W. Sivir's W will hit you. It has inifinite bounces, and the range is turned to let it bounce from melee minions to ranged minions to champions. There's a reason the damage on the ability has consistently been nerfed on the PBE. Because she will hit you with that ability. Maybe even three times. Three times 50% of her total damage is 1.5 her total damage. It's not a skill shot. It can't be dodged. You have to leave the lane. Sivir's W only gets to be so freaking powerful if she has a weakness when it's down.


Because Sivir's W is awesome. She hits basically everything on the screen for 1.5-2.1x her total attack damage. Play the champion. See how awesome Ricochet is. It's awesome. Sivir pays for Ricochet's power budget by having lower range when it's down. Because her range is the screen when it's up.

*Okay, some exaggeration in the post. But this is an example of why those dudes are smarter than me :P
So what you're saying is...

Sivir's W does tons of damage?


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Ledinax

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Good joke OP.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

10-30-2013
3 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veinne View Post
You're an awesome guy Phreak and I always love your input. Your knowledge of high level gameplay and how it works shouldn't be disregarded. You may not have as fluent as a knowledge internally or percentage wise with damage, scaling, etc, (I could be wrong so I apologize in advance) but your understanding of high level gameplay balance is amazing. I wish that the balance team would actually tackle real issues instead of funsizing everything. It's a bit discouraging to learn a champion and then have it nerfed so hard to the point where it's almost not worth playing. IE Zyra..
I think we rarely Olaf things nowadays. Mid Zyra should be in a really similar place power-wise after the changes in 3.13

Q deals 5-25 less damage, but with a .05 greater ratio, meaning damage breaks even at 100-500 AP. Potentially a late-game buff. Even without breaking even, not a huge nerf.

Plants are weaker from levels 2-5, break even at 6, and deal more damage after. Mid Zyra levels quicker than support Zyra, hurts her less. Increases her damage output for the vast majority of the game.

Anyways, I don't think this demolishes Mid Zyra or anything. My understanding is that she gets Athene's (and maybe Blue Buff) anyways, so the CDR change on W isn't that impactful either. A lot of the changes can look bad on paper. Almost all of them exclusively hit Support Zyra, who's like the #1 pick competitively right now. However, Zyra's not a huge area of expertise for me except that I know how super powerful she is, so I'm not the best person to talk about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDragonArmy View Post
You just explained it. They're trying to make Sivir scale off cdr and ad rather than the usual as/ad/crit by making her abilities stronger. Effective range is not autoattack range. Vayne's effective range is always 550 period. Sivir has her long range Q, and W ricochet should hit every person in a teamfight 3 times. Higher effective range. You can basically get free autos on their squishies by bouncing it off their front line if I'm unsderstanding the ability correctly.

I'm not saying it's powerful, will work, or is a good idea, but that's their intent. Kog doesn't get 700+ range all the time. Sivir doesn't get to spread damage across their team with every auto.

They have the same base range of 500.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Risotadazo View Post
So Sivir has some situations in which she is stronger than others because her effective range is situational. Do you really think a champion has to have the same effectiveness in all situations to be good?
Y'all got it <3


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OMG halp meh plz

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Risotadazo View Post
So Sivir has some situations in which she is stronger than others because her effective range is situational. Do you really think a champion has to have the same effectiveness in all situations to be good?
Considering most/all champs are 100% effective no matter what the current status of the map is, yes, a mechanic that relies on minions as a crutch is awful design.


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Splinterheart

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
I think we rarely Olaf things nowadays. Mid Zyra should be in a really similar place power-wise after the changes in 3.13

Q deals 5-25 less damage, but with a .05 greater ratio, meaning damage breaks even at 100-500 AP. Potentially a late-game buff. Even without breaking even, not a huge nerf.

Plants are weaker from levels 2-5, break even at 6, and deal more damage after. Mid Zyra levels quicker than support Zyra, hurts her less. Increases her damage output for the vast majority of the game.

Anyways, I don't think this demolishes Mid Zyra or anything. My understanding is that she gets Athene's (and maybe Blue Buff) anyways, so the CDR change on W isn't that impactful either. A lot of the changes can look bad on paper. Almost all of them exclusively hit Support Zyra, who's like the #1 pick competitively right now. However, Zyra's not a huge area of expertise for me except that I know how super powerful she is, so I'm not the best person to talk about it.
I recall seeing a post on GD earlier that her ult is now trash due to it's changes. Probably exaggerated, but I haven't played nerfed Zyra and the thread was gaining upvotes. I think whatever changed DID impact mid Zyra though...


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

10-30-2013
4 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMG halp meh plz View Post
Considering most/all champs are 100% effective no matter what the current status of the map is, yes, a mechanic that relies on minions as a crutch is awful design.
Vayne relies on walls, Nidalee relies on Brush, Rumble wants narrow hallways, Morgana/Galio/Amumu want people grouped up and not all areas of the map look the same.

Completely disagree, sir. Your location on the map should be a relevant detail for how you fight.


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Luscious Lenny

Senior Member

10-30-2013

this guy is trying to defend a 2.2 percent base attack speed nerf in exchange for very very very minor aoe.

if i want an aoe AD ill pick twitch, corki, varus. MF

you know those champs that have good range, good scaling, and good aoe?


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Commando Yi

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Vayne relies on walls, Nidalee relies on Brush, Rumble wants narrow hallways, Morgana/Galio/Amumu want people grouped up and not all areas of the map look the same.

Completely disagree, sir. Your location on the map should be a relevant detail for how you fight.
Garen should have the ability to plant brushes on the map


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TyWiPe

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Vayne relies on walls, Nidalee relies on Brush, Rumble wants narrow hallways, Morgana/Galio/Amumu want people grouped up and not all areas of the map look the same.

Completely disagree, sir. Your location on the map should be a relevant detail for how you fight.
Can I have your avatar?


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spiderswine

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
I think we rarely Olaf things nowadays. Mid Zyra should be in a really similar place power-wise after the changes in 3.13

Q deals 5-25 less damage, but with a .05 greater ratio, meaning damage breaks even at 100-500 AP. Potentially a late-game buff. Even without breaking even, not a huge nerf.

Plants are weaker from levels 2-5, break even at 6, and deal more damage after. Mid Zyra levels quicker than support Zyra, hurts her less. Increases her damage output for the vast majority of the game.

Anyways, I don't think this demolishes Mid Zyra or anything. My understanding is that she gets Athene's (and maybe Blue Buff) anyways, so the CDR change on W isn't that impactful either. A lot of the changes can look bad on paper. Almost all of them exclusively hit Support Zyra, who's like the #1 pick competitively right now. However, Zyra's not a huge area of expertise for me except that I know how super powerful she is, so I'm not the best person to talk about it.
well first of all the cc on her ult got a very significant reduction,but anyway,
you are playing stupid,there's no way you can't be aware of how devastating these nerfs are,that's just not possible.


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