@Phreak, you're better off as a live balancer that shoutcaster

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T Jiyeon

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Not saying your shout cast is bad, it's terrific and I love it, but reading your posts with regards to numerous posts about champion being OP/UP, certain skills have no counter play etc etc. It seems you know alot about the game, and to me it sounds like you could do a better job at balancing the game than the current "If a champion is strong, we nerf, if weak, we buff" balance team.(which results in these boon and bust cycles for champions)


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Spitsonkittens

Senior Member

10-30-2013

I think he has more of a hand in balance than you might think

Edit: not sure why downvotes, just saying his opinion is probably valued by the balance team


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doublelift fg

Senior Member

10-30-2013

no thanks


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Gløry

Senior Member

10-30-2013

All that stuff he posted in the vayne thread about how to combat her doesn't somehow make silver bolts a sound design decision.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

10-30-2013
1 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Jiyeon View Post
Not saying your shout cast is bad, it's terrific and I love it, but reading your posts with regards to numerous posts about champion being OP/UP, certain skills have no counter play etc etc. It seems you know alot about the game, and to me it sounds like you could do a better job at balancing the game than the current "If a champion is strong, we nerf, if weak, we buff" balance team.(which results in these boon and bust cycles for champions)
I appreciate the kind words.

I have an interest in game design, but TBH I really like yelling about how cool pro plays are and stuff .

Now to be completely fair, our live design guys are way better than me at this stuff. I can explain play/counter-play as a high-level player, and I think I make pretty good posts on the subject, but saying, "I wish you balanced because look at these guys" is just wrong, sorry.

For example, the guys talking about Sivir's W and her base attack range? I was one of those guys going, "But guys, her range is so short!" However, there are two things that caught me that made me go, "Ohhhh..."

1. Champions have a power budget. Every point of armor, attack speed, and range sucks up some of that budget. Renekton wouldn't get to nearly the same stuff that he does if he had 550 range. (Also it would be pretty awkward). Nimble champions like Quinn and Vayne have pretty low effective ranges. But this lets us make the rest of them more powerful (Seriously I've been on the receiving end of Valor full-comboing me and it hurts really bad). If Sivir gets to be more nimble, more AoE-awesome, and more other stuff as a price for attack range, then that's cool. Why should I pick a champion who isn't Caitlyn? She has the most range! Because this other champion offers something she doesn't. Range is just one axis of power.

2. Sivir's W. Sivir's W will hit you. It has inifinite bounces, and the range is turned to let it bounce from melee minions to ranged minions to champions. There's a reason the damage on the ability has consistently been nerfed on the PBE. Because she will hit you with that ability. Maybe even three times. Three times 50% of her total damage is 1.5 her total damage. It's not a skill shot. It can't be dodged. You have to leave the lane. Sivir's W only gets to be so freaking powerful if she has a weakness when it's down.

Kog'Maw has had 500 range since forever. When he hits W, it goes up. Sometimes over 700. Despite having 500 range, he's been the #1 AD Carry in the game at times, without his range ever being touched in any of the buffs and nerfs. Kog'Maw's W overcame his weak base range. Why can't Sivir?

Because Sivir's W is awesome. She hits basically everything on the screen for 1.5-2.1x her total attack damage. Play the champion. See how awesome Ricochet is. It's awesome. Sivir pays for Ricochet's power budget by having lower range when it's down. Because her range is the screen when it's up.

*Okay, some exaggeration in the post. But this is an example of why those dudes are smarter than me :P


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Cant Blind This

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Jiyeon View Post
Not saying your shout cast is bad, it's terrific and I love it, but reading your posts with regards to numerous posts about champion being OP/UP, certain skills have no counter play etc etc. It seems you know alot about the game, and to me it sounds like you could do a better job at balancing the game than the current "If a champion is strong, we nerf, if weak, we buff" balance team.(which results in these boon and bust cycles for champions)
thats pretty inaccurate
this is more like it
Name:  suchnerf.jpg
Views: 2620
Size:  66.2 KB


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Mjaxon

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
1. Champions have a power budget. Every point of armor, attack speed, and range sucks up some of that budget.
Too bad the Olaf rework used about a 10th of his power budget.


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OneDragonArmy

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Wait wait, Kog has 500 base range? Checking
Edit: Holy damn he's right wat wat wat


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doublelift fg

Senior Member

10-30-2013

yes but 710 with W making him #2 behind twitch under ulti


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Maou

Senior Member

10-30-2013

You're an awesome guy Phreak and I always love your input. Your knowledge of high level gameplay and how it works shouldn't be disregarded. You may not have as fluent as a knowledge internally or percentage wise with damage, scaling, etc, (I could be wrong so I apologize in advance) but your understanding of high level gameplay balance is amazing. I wish that the balance team would actually tackle real issues instead of funsizing everything. It's a bit discouraging to learn a champion and then have it nerfed so hard to the point where it's almost not worth playing. IE Zyra..


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