There is no counter to silver bolts

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YGY818

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
It's worth pointing out that only about 20% of Vayne's damage to champions is coming from Silver Bolts. Armor/health/etc is still largely effective against Vayne's damage output.

Also, some of the most common anti-AD items are effective against Silver Bolts. Exhaust, Randuin's Omen, and Frozen Heart all slow attack speed, reducing the damage of Silver Bolts.

There's also in-battle counterplay. Vayne has to hit a target three times in a row in order to get the reward. If you and a friend fight her together and you can dance in and out of range/vision to make her switch targets, you greatly drop her damage output.
What do you do with late game Vayne that builds 2.00 attack speed? Oh, frozen heart = 1.6x attack speed.

Big deal, they can still rip apart anyone late game.


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Whyu

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Ryu View Post
While I get the Counterplay argument with Vayne, she only gets her super steroid if she can 1v1 someone and go after one person at a time.

Someone like Kog actually has a stronger steroid and can switch targets on a whim.
I'd like to see Vayne's Silver Bolt timer reduced. It's 3 seconds currently, which means most (if not all) hard cc will not reset Vayne's Silver bolt stacks.

I feel like hard cc should be more of a counter to Vayne. It's not as effective as it should be (imo).

If Vayne's Silver Bolt stacks were to reset after 1.5 seconds, it's still ample time to get another hit in, but promotes counterplay. While it may make using Vayne harder ..... is she supposed to be an easy champion to play?


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doublelift fg

Senior Member

10-30-2013

XD, phreak said: she is good against tank

ironicly: vayne deals more dmg with SB against 2000 hp target
XD


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sl0tw0n

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commando Yi View Post
the problem is that she has a team and anyone they cc whether it be tank, bruiser, carry w/e is someone that vayne can shred easily
You also have a team, if she is in AA range then she is in range of any CC/burst/gapcloser on your team, if she disengages your team has a large advantage in total dmg.

The only way she can dominate a fight is if you let her engage her targets one by one.

caitlynn varus and jinx can all melt her from a range which she can't retaliate from if she's stunned or even snared, no movement no tumble no stealth.


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1v1 on RS

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Cry more master yi main


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BlazingSalvo

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Here's something to consider, though. Vayne silver bolts might not have been the most damage in the past, but this season they nerfed PD and Infinity Edge slightly, even greaves technically, and lowered the damage output on virtually every ADC. End of last season, Ez, MF, and Graves ults all got damage nerfs, MF w was nerfed, and you can see a plethora of nerfs to ADC damage (Draven, etc.).

Meanwhile Vayne actually gained botrk.

If Vayne saw play occasionally even season two, and was considered "balanced" last year right after the mana cost buffs, there's no way indirectly buffing her 5-6 times hasn't made her damage scaling too high for any one champion, regardless of kit.

Also, if the rumored planned nerfs to Last Whisper are accurate, she'll be in even more need of gutting.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

10-30-2013
8 of 9 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coredor View Post
Sounds a lot like you're saying the counter to Vayne is to 2 v 1. Don't get me wrong I'm neither here nor there about Vayne about balance. What I will say is that I find for the vast majority of champions there seems to be no 'right way' to win a duel with her. Where as if I play good against other champs even if they counter me or are fed I can still beat them.
It's an interesting issue. I know that we don't really like "hard counters" to be a thing in League of Legends. Really, I think we've got, at least with Vayne, a situation with timings. Vayne loses to about 80% of other Marksmen in lane, assuming the support is ambivalent. Graves and Ezreal are the only two were I'd be like, "Yeah Vayne's going to do just fine here." If a champion has a weak laning phase, I think it's really only fair that they get something more powerful afterwards.

Now maybe, that "something" is too much. I know we've nerfed Vayne in the past. I know we nerfed Kassadin just this patch.

There's definitely something a bit different with Marksmen. Most of their power can't be dodged. It's just basic attacks. In Vayne's case, she's heavily about basic attacks. Someone like Ezreal or Corki, you can dodge a decent percentage of their damage if you can juke their skill shots. Vayne, you've got to mess with Silver Bolts, which is really hard to do 1v1. Definitely something I can commiserate with you on.


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doublelift fg

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1v1 on RS View Post
Cry more master yi main
just shut the fck up if you have nothing to say to the thread subject


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

10-30-2013
9 of 9 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by YGY818 View Post
What do you do with late game Vayne that builds 2.00 attack speed? Oh, frozen heart = 1.6x attack speed.

Big deal, they can still rip apart anyone late game.
TBH that's kind of irrelevant. Frozen Heart is 20% reduced damage for your team. Even more if she targets you (armor).

And still, if Vayne built enough offense to be at 2.0 attacks per second, she's going to get oneshot by the Fizz on your team.


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KSHarrison

Senior Member

10-30-2013

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Originally Posted by Oh Muh Gah View Post
Someone please post the post-death report screenshot where silver bolts did 40% of the damage to shut Phreak up please.
That was from Brent Rambo and his numbers were off. I know this because I went back and calculated the damage. He used a VERY biased situation to show 41%, something that is only possible if you are Garen. If you aren't Garen, those numbers won't appear 95% of the time. That was really ****ty of Brent Rambo to deceive GD like that and stir up a storm with misleading information.

I've calculated the damage Silver bolts *should* do, and it is around 20-25%, reaching 30%+ only on extremely tanky targets (eg. Double Randuins). The fact that Phreak, whose most played champion is Vayne, can confirm that his end of the game results are 20%, only corroborates the point.

Also, all the people comparing Tristana to Vayne are plain wrong. Tristana has *one* steroid. Vayne has *three* steroids. Vayne will always kill you faster; Tristana is a hyper carry because of her range and one good steroid. Vayne's dps should be compared to Kog Maw and Corkie, or Twitch if he uses his Ambush, as well as Master Yi, Tryndamere, or Jax with similar items. You'll find you don't live any longer against them, either.