There is no counter to silver bolts

First Riot Post
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cork

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Wither?


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Young Luv Murder

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
It's worth pointing out that only about 20% of Vayne's damage to champions is coming from Silver Bolts. Armor/health/etc is still largely effective against Vayne's damage output.

There's also in-battle counterplay. Vayne has to hit a target three times in a row in order to get the reward. If you and a friend fight her together and you can dance in and out of range/vision to make her switch targets, you greatly drop her damage output.
Phreak, I'm sorry but you are contradicting yourself here.

If its only 20% of her damage output why is it so important that you force her to change targets to -greatly- drop her damage out put? Is 20% a small amount, as for your first point, or a great part of her damage, as for your second point?

Silver Bolts is -ridiculous- when compared to any other ADC. Why? Because with tumble and a knockback/stun she easily does as much damage as any other ADC, if not more, without counting Silver Bolts proc. 8% of max Health/3 attacks is massive on any champion.


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Machete Cortez

Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synkronicity View Post
Hp is exactly what you build. If it ignores armor, and does true damage, then having more health is necessary. If each shot does 100 damage, and you have 500 health, you're dead in 5 shots. If each shot does 100 damage, and you have 1000 health, you're dead in 10 shots. Seems to me that health is the way to go.
seems to me that u skiped math class.
silver bolts does 8% of hp, if u have 2000 hp she is dealing 160 dmg with silver bolts. if u have 10 000 hp she is dealing 800 dmg with silver bolts.


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Mogs01gt

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Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FabulousJeremy View Post
She's anti-bruiser by design, that's part of her niche.
I don't get why we're complaining here really.
Because her kit has a lot in it compared to other rADC's. It's a similar issue to how Ez has a lot in his kit.

They both have the Irelia problem but rADC's rarely get gutted like melee champs do. Well except for Graves...


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Sohardrightnow12

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Silver Bolts is -ridiculous- when compared to any other ADC. Why? Because with tumble and a knockback/stun she easily does as much damage as any other ADC, if not more, without counting Silver Bolts proc. 8% of max Health/3 attacks is massive on any champion.
Thank you. Someone actually gets it.


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Cant Blind This

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FabulousJeremy View Post
Corki, Lucian, Varus, Draven, Graves, Jinx and even Sivir would like a word with you.
Vayne wrecks lucian, varus, draven if she's not 2+ items behind, she destroys graves, jinx skill matchup (vayne can easily dodge her spells with all that mobility + jinx got nerfs) and let's not act like sivir is good.

Maybe corki has a shot at her but then again it's really a skill matchup in which I consider vayne to have the edge.

Silver bolts isn't really what bothers me so much.

What bothers me is that she has silver bolts in her current kit which gives her a low cooldown dash, a knockback and invibility + free stats on a low cooldown. Also free movespeed if chasing, not to mention her perfect synergy with bork.

A good example of a lategame scaling carry that can shred tanks with a kit that makes sense (to me) is kogmaw.

He has great range (sure, vayne doesn't) with his w, shreds tanks and can hurt most of the people however he can't reposition. That's the issue with vayne, she has more dps than most carries while having better scaling and better repositioning (3 of her 4 abilities can help her kite a lot, if you don't count her passive)


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Minishmaster

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Those are both champions with Attack Speed Slows and the ability to disengage to force Silver Bolts to reset. I actually think those are some of the better champions to deal with her.

But again, Vayne is not someone you sit there and say, "I have more numbers than you." Her literal goal is to shoot at one target over and over until it falls over. Don't let her do that. She has the exact tools that she has in order to aid her: She can re-position quickly on the offense. She can pin one target to a wall. If you let her keep hitting one person, she's going to deal a lot of damage to it.

Don't. Don't tank her alone. Don't sit there and let her shoot at you. Push her around. Give her something else she has to deal with.
3 seconds of AS slow every ~5 seconds is nice, but it isn't good enough to stop any ADC from dealing damage. Either way, that's far from the point.

Gragas, and malphite to some extent, are the champions that are designed to go in there and tank alone. They have more numbers than you, and they need to get hit over and over until they fall down. That is their entire purpose for existing. And vayne (as well as yi, to some extent), by being in the game, negates that purpose. She is the perfect hardcounter to tank gragas with her sustained true damage, and she can also wreck the rest of his team with strong burst damage. She's not an anti-tank so much as she is a high damage ADC that is extremely mobile and hard to catch, and who can also wreck tanks as an added bonus.

Kogmaw is an anti-tank. He shreds though me as gragas. But I don't feel bad about that, because after the 7 seconds it takes him to kill me, his W is on CD and my team can get him afterwords. Vayne shreds me without needing more than a 2s CD on tumble, so she can still deal with the rest of my team.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

10-30-2013
7 of 9 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papy Mougeot View Post
You can't read this stat that take the whole game and average it and say it's 20% so it seems balanced.
Vayne will face squishy enemies for the bigger part of the game but it will be a problem when she will face tanky champions only because maxhptruedamage !!

And it's up 100% of the time if people can't avoid the 3rd hit and there are not that much people who can do that with all her mobility when tristana is only up 7/20 => 35% of time. (without blue buff or any cdr)
I agree and disagree. By nature, things that stick out... stick out to us. There are definitely a handful of us that have gone, "Man, I died to Vayne really fast this time!" and have a Death Recap where we died in exactly 3*n attacks, had a lot of Armor, and Silver Bolts ended up being a large portion of the damage we took. Of course if on average, Silver Bolts is 21% of her damage, sometimes it's going to be more, and sometimes it's going to be less.

I think cherry-picking the fights where Vayne hit the tankiest target uninterrupted and saying, "look how high it is!" is unfair. You're absolutely right that she's good against tanky targets. Definitely a strength of Vayne. When hitting tanky targets uninterrupted, I'm betting that Silver Bolts is more than a 20% damage amp. Wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. However, Vayne hits more people than that. Vayne does hit squishies. She does hit mages. She does hit Marksmen. She does engage in 1-2 hit trades. She does break Silver Bolts and switch targets.

Tristana doesn't. Tristana, at the start of the fight, gets 90% attack speed. For the next seven seconds, she can kill tanks, hit squishies, knock people back, apply Explosive Shot, all the while retaining that whole 90% attack speed buff. Just like you can against Vayne, you can kite back during those 7 seconds (or those first two Silver Bolts) and make her waste that steroid, absolutely. But as long as there's one target in range, Tristana enjoys the full benefit. That's not something I can say for Vayne.


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Coredor

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Sounds a lot like you're saying the counter to Vayne is to 2 v 1. Don't get me wrong I'm neither here nor there about Vayne about balance. What I will say is that I find for the vast majority of champions there seems to be no 'right way' to win a duel with her. Where as if I play good against other champs even if they counter me or are fed I can still beat them.


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cork

Senior Member

10-30-2013

http://www.lolking.net/champions/

That 48% win ratio too op