There is no counter to silver bolts

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Commando Yi

Senior Member

10-30-2013

just noticed phreaks most played champion is vayne

not surprised at absurd lengths he's going to defend her @_@


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Ninja Tabby

Junior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaitreJoris View Post
"Oh hey guise, it's worth nothing that Vayne only has to deal 80% of the usual ADC damage because she gets 20% from Silverbolt anyway."

"Also btw guise, you can counter her. Just omfg nextl evel brush juke and hope the Vayne sucks at focusing a single target so she will never get her silverbolt proc'd!."
If you happen to let a vayne hit you 3 times in a row in team fight, you are either a good tank support or a terribly positioned carry and with bad focus. Seriously, people complain make I feel like they just stand there and test how fast a vayne kill them instead of fighting for it. An AP carry with decent focus should be able to 2-shot vayne or at least take her low enough to make her a non-factor in the rest of teamfight.


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Mogs01gt

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Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Graves's passive still means about 80% to Vayne. Probably more actually, since Silver Bolts will be at level 1 for most of the laning phase. Silver Bolts deals 20 damage + 4% of a target's max health at level 1. For a ~800 HP champion, that's 52 damage. Caitlyn's Headshot deals more damage than that.
But its free damage, she isnt using mana to produce the DPS. Graves depends on his Q and mana to reach his maximum DPS potential, he isnt maxing out his AS ability first..


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Kagami

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ModOperator View Post
My first comment was "Kill vayne" to counter silverbolts. It got downvoted.

More specifically, I play Quinn and Vayne just dies constantly in any match up at any point in game where both adcs are equal cs/kills.

Imagine an entire stack of 3 bolts being misses and seeing Vayne say in all chat, "**** quinn that is so stupid." Yup. That's why I have 0 respect for this thread.
It's true Quinn can beat Vayne, but having any losing match-ups alone doesn't make her balanced, or max hp% true damage anymore fair (also blind doesn't stop them from stacking apparently anyways)


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CQReborn

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Graves's passive still means about 80% to Vayne. Probably more actually, since Silver Bolts will be at level 1 for most of the laning phase. Silver Bolts deals 20 damage + 4% of a target's max health at level 1. For a ~800 HP champion, that's 52 damage. Caitlyn's Headshot deals more damage than that.

Yes, Vayne is good at sticking to an individual target, but not every battle happens in the middle of the lane with nothing around. Try jumping into brush, rooting her in place, or walking out of range. Even if she does reach you eventually, Silver Bolts can still fall off. Is the Vayne really going to sit there chasing the Zyra who has 2 Silver Bolt stacks on her, waiting out the 1.75 second root while a Renekton is hitting her? Or is she going to turn, Condemn him into the wall, and keep going from there?
Your points are valid, but the suggestion of dipping into brush / LoS usually only works in the areas of the map where a wall stun is suddenly a big concern. I lean towards agreeing that Vayne isn't OP by default, but blade of the ruined king makes her overpowered.

That item needs to have its' nerfs reverted and set to melee only, give the ranged ADCs something else to play with, it is just too strong on ranged champions, especially on people like Vayne and Kog.


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Kagami

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Graves's passive still means about 80% to Vayne. Probably more actually, since Silver Bolts will be at level 1 for most of the laning phase. Silver Bolts deals 20 damage + 4% of a target's max health at level 1. For a ~800 HP champion, that's 52 damage. Caitlyn's Headshot deals more damage than that.
Zileas admitted it was a broken skill, just earlier today, why do you defend it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
It's true, silver bolts do percent true damage, which renders ineffective armor items, health items, and play balance.


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Kokoroyer

Member

10-30-2013

I think Vayne isn't the easiest ADC to play, but in most cases, she feels really overpowered when playing against her.


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Papy Mougeot

Senior Member

10-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
It's worth pointing out that only about 20% of Vayne's damage to champions is coming from Silver Bolts. Armor/health/etc is still largely effective against Vayne's damage output.

Also, some of the most common anti-AD items are effective against Silver Bolts. Exhaust, Randuin's Omen, and Frozen Heart all slow attack speed, reducing the damage of Silver Bolts.

There's also in-battle counterplay. Vayne has to hit a target three times in a row in order to get the reward. If you and a friend fight her together and you can dance in and out of range/vision to make her switch targets, you greatly drop her damage output.
I don't understand why you say silver bolt is about 20% of her damage output because this won't be the same depending who she does attack. If the enemy is tanky this number will go up by a lot because it's true damage.

And 20% damage increase for an adc is still a lot.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

10-30-2013
3 of 9 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendid Cake View Post
K but even you have to admit Vayne is a bit ridiculous right now. At level 6 she just gets to all in her lane opponents for free, regardless of the matchup, and she snowballs ridiculously hard from there. Then she just builds Bork, stacks AS without needing to build damage, and suddenly even the tankiest tank can't keep up to buy enough defense to survive. And then Q spam, stealth, self peel, lifesteal, and barrier make her infuriatingly difficult to kill. Doesn't even matter if you get a good catch on her, she's so stupidly difficult to punish.
She's a strong duelist if you have no good ways of disengaging from her. But I actually disagree with most of the rest of your points. She is entirely single-target focused. So focused, that she can't even switch targets without losing DPS. You beat Vayne by giving her too many things to deal with because she literally cannot deal with more than one target at a time.

Here's how battles should play out against Vayne:

Sitting in lane: Remember her capabilities. Champions like Ahri, Zed, Syndra, Fizz. They can all jump on you and say "DIE!!" if you cross a certain amount of health. Vayne has this ability as well. She's hard to shake off, and it's scary. If she's playing too far up, get a gank. Otherwise, just be careful. If you have a stun, use it before her third attack. If she's spamming Tumble/Condemn to force Silver Bolt procs, she'll run out of mana. This is her big strength, small battles. You have to respect it.

Ganking her: She can only Condemn one of you, and beyond that her escape is low. Land a stun, root, or slow and catch up. She can't stop Nocturne from Ult/Fearing her. She can't outrun fast champions like Nidalee or Quinn. She can outplay a Jarvan. She can't Condemn Sion before he lands Cryptic Gaze. Leona needs to wait until Tumble gets used. Nami can probably get Tidal Wave off regardless. It's important to recognize which abilities she can't dodge, and which need to wait for Tumble to be used.

Team fights: This is where Silver Bolts can be abused. Let's assume a standard "Two melee guys in the front line" situation:

If they're both diving her, bring a pink ward. Use your CC. She can Condemn one of you (resetting Silver Bolts), turn invisible (Vision Ward), and then get Feared/stunned/hooked/whatever. Then the other guy rejoins. She requires just as much peel as any other ADC in this case, so all the normal rules apply.

If they're sitting on the front line, then watch your own Silver Bolt stacks. Back up the second she starts focusing you. If Vayne chases you to get the third hit, she runs into melee range of the other guys, and into spell/autoattack range of everyone else. Vayne will die in this case, or she gives up Silver Bolts DPS.

Now, of course Vayne is strong. She's picked fairly often in competitive play. She's not the #1 ADC; we see that from the matches we watch, but she's good. Teams who can utilize her dueling power and say, "You must send at least two guys to deal with her" and play around that are successful. CLG does this really well. But Vayne is not auto-win. That's all I'm saying.


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IS11d6327cb35cafc124891

Senior Member

10-30-2013

vayne shoudnt have the stealth, its moronic she not an assassin