An Introduction to our support changes in preseason

First Riot Post
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Rafael Merlo

Member

10-25-2013

Spellthief on Lulu/Soraka: rich purple banana mess! XD


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lm Krueger ml

Senior Member

10-25-2013

I wonder how a duo Jungler setup would work with both taking an Emblem + Jungler item...

There's enough Jungle camps to roam loads and gank lanes every 30 secs. Could be brutal. Imagine Lee + Elise both Jungling, one starts Red the other Blue... sounds scary man.


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Anonmetric

Senior Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
This was already done in the last patch. (For boots 1)
But when goofing around with friends, how will corporate Mundo open his shoe store?


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Kira Onime

Senior Member

10-25-2013

I literally wet my pants.


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tenrel

Senior Member

10-25-2013

what is going to prevent even more mages from moving bot from the increased gold gain?

it seems like if you are just giving tons of gold for not last hitting then there are many non support champions that are going to try to take advantage of that.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

10-25-2013
19 of 22 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kira Onime View Post
I literally wet my pants.
Here's a six-pack of depends.


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Socratocracy

Gameplay Analyst

10-25-2013
20 of 22 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neofederalist View Post
Xel, have you internally tested this with non-traditional duo lanes? I'm not talking about ADC + Annie or something like that, but a kill lane like Jarvan/Leona.

My gut is that these sort of lanes will get insane with non-farming gold sources.
I'm glad you brought this up, because this is something we've been concerned about internally as well. We've seen Leona experience much success with the new system, especially if she can pull ahead in a lane. One of the goals of this system change was to improve the viability of other supports. Now we're seeing Leona and J4 see more success as supports in that they are rewarded more for generating kills early on than they currently are. This may be a bit too snowbally, and is something we'll be watching closely.

However, one thing to keep in mind is that in order to reap the full benefits of the improved support gold generation, champions will need to invest heavily in the Utility tree, which is intended to be a check on, say, Pantheon or Rengar from being able to zone out a lane and come out of lane with a substantial amount of gold. We're continuing to test champions and "kill lanes" like what you've mentioned internally and determine whether or not the new items and gold flow for supports shifts things such that you're better off running Rengar/Pantheon than a traditional support, which hasn't been the case in our testing so far. We want to increase the number of supports that are viable with these new systems, not invalidate the viability of traditional supports. With Trinkets assisting with more early game vision as well, it's not as easy for "sits in a bush and kills you when you get close" champions to zone a traditional bottom lane composition.

We've tried things such as Annie/Brand and Zyra/Kha'Zix, and have found that the "traditional" bot lane now has the itemization options to allow them to farm aggressively and harass the "kill" lane. In other words, we haven't found any specific "kill lanes" consistently do well internally any more so than traditional ones.

That being said, if we're off-the-mark in our testing and find that traditional supports are falling behind, as Xelnath mentioned in the bottom part his original post, we're currently working on having the utility of traditional supports scale with items (Janna's shield granting more AD based on her AP being one of these explorations). This should provide additional help in case traditional supports feel like they're being outclassed.

We're continuing to test these kinds of "kill lanes" internally, and are definitely interested in specific lanes you're concerned about. I'd love to hear some of your suggestions on fun, interesting, and awesome lane combinations that you guys think would thrive under the new income generation systems?


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Nimir Rah

Senior Member

10-25-2013

Just to be clear, you can only choose between building either a Shurelia's or a Spellthief Blade? I understand from a "too much gold flow" perspective, but what about the helpful active? There will be a limit on the items we can build? < is how it somewhat sounds, which is why I am asking for clarification.


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Rafael Merlo

Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenrel View Post
what is going to prevent even more mages from moving bot from the increased gold gain?

it seems like if you are just giving tons of gold for not last hitting then there are many non support champions that are going to try to take advantage of that.
And in what exactly this would be only bad? Man, I really expect to my (and Elementz) support Nautilus become viable de facto =)


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

10-25-2013
21 of 22 Riot Posts

I'd like to reiterate what Socratocracy just said:

We are okay with creativity and experimentation in lane, as long as it doesn't result in an unpleasant or degenerate experience and support characters still have a place to go and be successful consistently.