An Introduction to our support changes in preseason

First Riot Post
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StriderXplosive

Senior Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by fathomful View Post
this is a great question i would like to see answered as well.

Seems to me the new meta would be this, why even jungle at all?

Free wards for every lane. Free gold for non cser. I understand someone would be under leveled a little bit, but still seems pretty legit concern for a jungler and a really fun opportunity for a support main! Two supports just sounds like fun.

answer dis!


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Mandaari

Senior Member

10-25-2013

I'm happy about this but there's a lot I feel you could have done better or overlooked:

1) Utility scaling with AP limits diversity a lot. There's no difference between a mage build and a support build. See here for whole spiel.

2) Just flat out giving money to those that fall behind seems like a major Band-Aid. Besides, why should the support be given any meaningful farm over someone else? Either support scaling has to be more impactful than any teammate they're fighting for farm, or the amount of catch-up gold they get has to be ridiculous. Does the gold granted by Philosopher's Stone also scale with how behind you are?

As a second point to this, I personally don't feel like you deserve to be given gold for being behind.

I think a better option is just to split last-hit gold between all people present or have something similar to an assist pool for minions. That way making your carry do well directly makes your support do well. Likewise, your support can actually participate in last hitting to directly help your carry get money.

3) Some stuff about wards, but I'll put that on the other thread.


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ControlBlue

Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by lm Krueger ml View Post
Well that's why there are multiple options

Assuming no one gp10 is obviously superior you can choose the one that suits your playstyle. Personally I'd find the Executioner one the most natural, plus I love that shield item it builds into. However many will prefer the Philo Stone for the more traditional 0cs support style. Obviously there are many hyper aggressive, EdWard style players who'll want the pickpocket-esque one too.
I get that, but in the case of Emblem the ADC will have to deal with your choice, you taking some of his farm could off-balance his farming (both of you trying to hit the same minion, see htat you missed it when actually the Support killed it before you -> natural frustration thinking you missed the gold), or make the Support worry about last-hitting more than about protecting his Carry (I can already see that causing some bad habits..).

Obviously I am somewhat searching for reasons to hate on the item, but merely in the hope that we don't end up with something we might regret getting in the long run.


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Raptamei

Senior Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
  • Executioner's Emblem executes minions below 200 health and grants gold to both you and the nearest ally when you last hit. Your ally gains a small gold bonus on top of this. This effect can happen up to twice a minute.
  • Spellthief's Blade makes it so that your spells and basic attacks against enemy champions grant you gold. It cannot affect the same target more than once every 10 seconds and last hitting an enemy disables this effect for 10 seconds.


Hmm... so I depend on the carry buying these items so I get gold?


notgonnahappen.jpg botrkdoesmoredamage.png


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TaNKeD

Senior Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptamei View Post
[/LIST]

Hmm... so I depend on the carry buying these items so I get gold?


notgonnahappen.jpg botrkdoesmoredamage.png
Why would the carry buy those?


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blah12321blah

Senior Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthzombie View Post
That sounds like that could be very op on tanks. Get that with warmogs sunfire and randuins and you give over a ton of health.
How about we quit using "Over Powered" where we should use some degree of "Actually efficient" instead?


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TaNKeD

Senior Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hellsage View Post
Speaking of the PBE, is the new system for PBE access going to be implemented BEFORE the Preseason 4 overhaul hits it, or afterwards?

I'm expecting to hear back with the former, but I can still hope.
It's already active. I was accepted and installed my PBE yesterday


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AFOM

Senior Member

10-25-2013

My Lord Xelnath, I see that you've found a version of the popular "synergy" mastery idea which actually works in a positive way. But I still have my doubts from the old ideas, and particularly with the new Philo passive.

I know you're working on preventing non-supports from taking over the support role, but if the gold gain is significant, I feel like you're definitely going to have your work cut out for you, especially when dealing with champs who can build pure tank and still function.

But my main concern is bot-lane snowballing. All of these items generate free gold, which means the sooner you can buy one, the bigger lead you get. So how does a bot lane deal after it gets crushed? You have XP bonuses for losing lanes, and that's nice (in a rubberbanding sort of way that I tend to hate in racing games), but seriously, with the Executioner's Emblem you're doubling the value of a given minion twice per minute (how will this work with cannon minions, by the way?). With Philo, you're rewarded for pushing the lane into the enemy tower, and every time you zone the enemy off a CS, you're effectively gaining bonus gold for your team.

I think these are inherent problems in creating gold out of nowhere. Currently, gold is a limited resource--there is a finite amount which can be gained at any one time, and no amount of snowballing will create more (with the exception of gp10s, which were already nerfed as a class more than once). So gold is going to come from nowhere, and if it's not going to both sides reasonably evenly, every jungler is going to have to spend the entire laning phase trying to snowball his botlane.

Help!


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ldqpbl

Senior Member

10-25-2013

I think a better option is just to split last-hit gold between all people present or have something similar to an assist pool for minions. That way making your carry do well directly makes your support do well. Likewise, your support can actually participate in last hitting to directly help your carry get money.


...ah yes, those wonderful 'adc's that have 20cs at 10 minutes :P


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Hudelf

Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
These items now have their own shop category and you can only buy 1 of them.
Will this tech be extended to other items like boots to prevent people from buying more than one of an item that doesn't stack? Seems like it would help newer players quite a bit (because who honestly hasn't bought two boots or two thornmails at some point?).