SOS: Support Our Supports @Riot The Effects Of Season 4 Vision Changes In Low Elo

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Cafe Restoran

Senior Member

10-25-2013

How shortsighted can you be?
How can you criticize a single change of what will be a whole avalanche of changes upcoming, not knowing how the others will impact on this one? Maybe, just maybe, if they took the ability to ward the whole map by himself from the support, it's because they have other plans for the support, right? Ever thought of that? Seems like the more logical path if you ask me.

The support shouldn't be the one warding the whole map anyway. They took away its ability to do so, now you can focus on other stuff. And giving the other players free wards (trinkets) WILL get them to ward. Also I wouldn't be surprised if wards got cheaper, since now you can't spam them, so even going as low as silver, people should be buying at least a couple wards per game if they're like 30g.


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Yuniiee

Senior Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage Night View Post
I completely disagree. Warding in itself is a lesson that needs to be taught early. And the failure of the system was as a result of riot to begin with for not implementing this system earlier. Yes there will be a large growing pain as a result, but if you compare what this system will allow us to do later then I am will ing to take that on.

So leave the new system in place and as community it about time we take the lumps for being idiots for not warding on our part.
Yes, but with the current "tutorials" warding isn't ever shown to beginner players as important. Unless riot decides to do something about this, it really is going to be a struggle keeping vision up if you're team doesn't value it.

But I agree that as a whole, the changes are going to benefit the game, but because you don't actually 'learn' anything about the game as a beginner (unless you have friends who teach you) it's not going to be that fun in low elo.


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Yuniiee

Senior Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cafe Restoran View Post
How shortsighted can you be?
How can you criticize a single change of what will be a whole avalanche of changes upcoming, not knowing how the others will impact on this one? Maybe, just maybe, if they took the ability to ward the whole map by himself from the support, it's because they have other plans for the support, right? Ever thought of that? Seems like the more logical path if you ask me.

The support shouldn't be the one warding the whole map anyway. They took away its ability to do so, now you can focus on other stuff. And giving the other players free wards (trinkets) WILL get them to ward. Also I wouldn't be surprised if wards got cheaper, since now you can't spam them, so even going as low as silver, people should be buying at least a couple wards per game if they're like 30g.
I don't want to appear short sighted. In the post I clearly stated that I know the changes will benefit in the long run, but as long as I'm battling "wards aren't important" attitudes in low elo it'll seriously be a struggle especially if Riot doesn't want to actually implement a system that TEACHES players how to play the game. And by this I mean the basics outside of last hitting minions.


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Croanin

Senior Member

10-25-2013

This concerns me a bit also. At Gold now I found that the Support that knows his job is not to rush a damn locket but to invest in Oracles and a surplus of wards will subliminally win the game for his team as opposed to the stubborn one who feels like 400g is simply too much an investment and needs his items. (a viable support needs 0 items btw, except maybe Thresh and Leona)

Carrying at low ELO now however will probably involve more aggressive supports like Blitzkrank or ones who benefit from building damage with new gold income, must supports are playmakers after all. (except lol Soraka).


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Razz Pitazz

Senior Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Plainview View Post
They're doing this because vision is strangling the game. They're trying to stop the entire map being light up no matter what your ranking is, it's not just about the support being the ward *****. You're just going to have to have to find some other way to win games than by abusing the fact that wards have been brokenly overpowered since the beginning of the game and other people in your games don't realize that.
Translation, low ELO is actually ahead of the curve.


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

10-25-2013
1 of 3 Riot Posts

Can understand your concern, given how effective supports can be via the vision game at present. We've got some other changes coming however that should really help open up options for supports that we'll be talking about soon. Short version is substantially improved income for duo lane supports, allowing them to make more of an impact via non consumable items. That's combined with some supports changing a bit so that their utility scales up with items, giving you the option of choosing between builds with higher utility, tankiness, activatables etc. Details to follow in the near future, if you've still got concerns about supports in some divisions struggling to make an appropriate impact let's chat then - disempowering supports is really not our goal here .

On the vision side I'd agree a number of players will probably still opt not to buy wards regularly. All classes will have access to the new vision trinkets however, offering some vision contribution from every member on the team. Trinkets are free, and go in a slot that can't hold anything else, so there's no incentive to not use them (in contrast to the competition between wards and other items for gold).


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RSV2

Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Can understand your concern, given how effective supports can be via the vision game at present. We've got some other changes coming however that should really help open up options for supports that we'll be talking about soon. Short version is substantially improved income for duo lane supports, allowing them to make more of an impact via non consumable items. That's combined with some supports changing a bit so that their utility scales up with items, giving you the option of choosing between builds with higher utility, tankiness, activatables etc. Details to follow in the near future, if you've still got concerns about supports in some divisions struggling to make an appropriate impact let's chat then - disempowering supports is really not our goal here .

On the vision side I'd agree a number of players will probably still opt not to buy wards regularly. All classes will have access to the new vision trinkets however, offering some vision contribution from every member on the team. Trinkets are free, and go in a slot that can't hold anything else, so there's no incentive to not use them (in contrast to the competition between wards and other items for gold).
On a side note, can characters interact with trinkets like normal wards? E.g. Lee Sin ward jumping to a trinket?

Anyway, I personally like these changes as it allows supports to be able to build the items that they want, and maybe even AP if the situation calls for it.


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Croanin

Senior Member

10-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Can understand your concern, given how effective supports can be via the vision game at present. We've got some other changes coming however that should really help open up options for supports that we'll be talking about soon. Short version is substantially improved income for duo lane supports, allowing them to make more of an impact via non consumable items. That's combined with some supports changing a bit so that their utility scales up with items, giving you the option of choosing between builds with higher utility, tankiness, activatables etc. Details to follow in the near future, if you've still got concerns about supports in some divisions struggling to make an appropriate impact let's chat then - disempowering supports is really not our goal here .

On the vision side I'd agree a number of players will probably still opt not to buy wards regularly. All classes will have access to the new vision trinkets however, offering some vision contribution from every member on the team. Trinkets are free, and go in a slot that can't hold anything else, so there's no incentive to not use them (in contrast to the competition between wards and other items for gold).
I just want to note that back in Season 1 before the Support/AD became officially standard, the team that was smart enough to invest in wards would easily win. This was when warding was officially everyones job. Riot is returning that.


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Zoram

Senior Member

10-25-2013

Well I'm liking these changes they are dynamic and fluid. While most people can now ward, I'm thinking that is a larger issue than supports. This one thing was revealed thus far, and I can't recall where but I could have sworn there was talk about giving supports power in ways other than warding and to scale in some way other than AP on spells.

So I think in time we will see supports get compensated for this loss of vision control but I can't say much since any information on that is still under wraps.

edit: ninja'd by Meddler, he pretty much explains how supports will now get power in other new interesting ways.


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FungalRimjob

Senior Member

10-25-2013

You'll now be able to carry as a support due to your ability to actually build items.


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