An Introduction to our vision changes in preseason

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

2pudge1cup

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-24-2013

@Xelnath @Xypherous

I love these changes. They look like exactly what the game needs.

I just have one question:

So, is oracles going to get a rework as well or what's going to be the deal with that?

edit: hardcore ninja'ed, thanks riot


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xelnath

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Systems Designer

10-24-2013
10 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Are trinkets permanent?
Yes, permanent, cooldown limited items.

Quote:
Will oracles still be in the game? I really don't have a problem with the current system or the new system, but I think oracles makes both systems really yucky.
We are still considering what we will do with oracles. It might be too strong in the new iteration.

Quote:
@Xelnath

What will be done about people that do not ward. Giving them a free ward isn't going to remind them to place it. I've lost games solely because the support buys a Sightstone and never uses it.
Giving people the option, then educating them in how to use it are separate problems - but I've found people *will* use things once they consistently have them.

Will keep an eye on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylince II View Post
@Xypherous & Xelnath

If each player gets a free ward right off the start (trinket), will this essentially eliminate the early jungle invasion tactic? Maybe a 2 minute delay on trinket use?
We were concerned about this too - then in testing found it was a actually a cool team-coordination to figure out who was warding where to block or reduce the impact of the invade.

However, in testing it reduced the surprise, but not the power of invading. E.g. Blitzcrank + steal blue is still super strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerradwolf View Post
hey xelnath,

do the newly designed pink wards just reveal the new stealth wards, or do they still reveal stealthed champions too?

i do understand that you said the trinket scanner doesn't reveal stealthed champs, but may be upgraded later for a gold fee.

Pink wards still reveal stealthed enemy champions, wards and traps.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Nimir Rah

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhawke View Post
How can you make an informed opinion without reading through everything?

Your ward placement can still be criticized as well now, this isn't changing anything in that sense. If your team refuses to buy wards, they're bad. It's not your fault. You will climb the rankings because you're a good player who knows the importance of vision. You're also given more tools to help your team beyond vision. Supports will have more gold and better itemization, and can have a bigger impact in teamfights.
Because the ward limits affect me directly. Vision wards being permanent bother me in a different way but I'll find a way to handle that also.

I play mostly with a group of five people and 9 times out of 10 I'm the support. I'm fine with that. When they support they rely heavily on the sightstone and I always find that the vision is lacking way too much.

But when I play, we always have vision. My teammates do buy wards sometimes, but they don't HAVE to when I'm playing support. They can focus on objectives, on items, and I can focus on map control. That is how we work as a team.

I feel like as a support I'm being punished for buying a lot of wards to help my team. Why should I be punished for helping my team?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

chungl00

Junior Member

10-24-2013

Not sure if i'm going to like this or not... With the limit on vision players we will not be able to dominate games, and or we will force not only the "support" player to get wards but possibly ADC, which is hard because ADC is very item dependent, which is killing them because they will have to spend money on wards.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

jkim229

Junior Member

10-24-2013

this is awesome. this 3 limit change will force other players, other than the support, to buy wards. This should really help out the lower brackets since they all think that it's only the supports job to ward. With the limit of 3, the support now has an excuse to shove back and tell the others to buy wards. Support the SUPPORTS!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PubME

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimir Rah View Post
Because the ward limits affect me directly. Vision wards being permanent bother me in a different way but I'll find a way to handle that also.

I play mostly with a group of five people and 9 times out of 10 I'm the support. I'm fine with that. When they support they rely heavily on the sightstone and I always find that the vision is lacking way too much.

But when I play, we always have vision. My teammates do buy wards sometimes, but they don't HAVE to when I'm playing support. They can focus on objectives, on items, and I can focus on map control. That is how we work as a team.

I feel like as a support I'm being punished for buying a lot of wards to help my team. Why should I be punished for helping my team?
It's not a punishment. It's opening new avenues for strategy.

A tiny, tiny, TEENIE TINY minority of support players enjoy the ward game.

Most hate it.

This is a hugely positive change for that VAST majority of support players.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Arcus Veles

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-24-2013

I feel like three wards and a pink is kind of restricting as someone who might want to dedicate themselves to vision placement. Any chance we might see an increased ward placement limit if you buy Sightstone/Ruby Sightstone? Even something as simple as 4 and 5, respectively.

I like to play LeBlanc support sometimes, and using all of her dashes and blinks to place aggressive wards all over the map is hilarious fun.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

2pudge1cup

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimir Rah View Post
Because the ward limits affect me directly. Vision wards being permanent bother me in a different way but I'll find a way to handle that also.

I play mostly with a group of five people and 9 times out of 10 I'm the support. I'm fine with that. When they support they rely heavily on the sightstone and I always find that the vision is lacking way too much.

But when I play, we always have vision. My teammates do buy wards sometimes, but they don't HAVE to when I'm playing support. They can focus on objectives, on items, and I can focus on map control. That is how we work as a team.

I feel like as a support I'm being punished for buying a lot of wards to help my team. Why should I be punished for helping my team?
Because that old system was bad for the game.

It created an instance where all disposable gold for one player went to straight wards and the only way to beat someone's vision advantage was to sink in more gold than them. If you are in the position where you're behind it's basically impossible to take back the vision advantage.

Now the warding burden gets to be spread around and it's hardcapped per player which is a good thing because now there isn't this infinite gold pit.

You aren't being punished. You're being rewarded by exploiting the old game mechanics so that the playstyle for everyone has to change for the better - unless you actually enjoy being the vision slave in a game when you're behind and get dewarded every time you ward.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

The FireWater

Senior Member

10-24-2013

I like these changes. The 1 vision ward, and it's lack of stealth seems like a good idea to stop those 'vision battles' you keep seeing in tourny games. And frankly I'm a fan of any attempt to
1) Encourage full team participation in warding/vision so the support isn't seam as nothing more than a ward dispensor.
2) Allows the support, in turn, to spend their gold on more useful items. Support can be the most impactful single role in a skilled game, they shouldn't just be buying gp5 and wards.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sophitia

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Can you comment on diminishing support damages in exchange for utility? This is something that has me the most worried in the upcoming changes, especially for anyone who mains something like Janna, Lulu or Soraka etc mid.