Future of Dominion: Chat with ManWolfAxeBoss

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AbyssionKnight

Senior Member

10-24-2013

I've played about 300-400 gameson Dominion and this is what i've gotten out of it.

A huge reason why most of my friends don't play, is simply perception. When Dominion was released they loved to play it, but back then no one knew the meta and unfortunately, since people didn't defend points so much as run around blindly capturing points, Movespeed shaco and rammus tended to dominate the entire dominion scene. That changed obviously, but most of my friends still remember Dominion as 'run around killing and hope no one plays rammus'.

I think a lot of that perception on the mode could be changed if Riot just supported it more. A tutorial could be nice, but I think actively promoting Dominion Tourneys and things of that nature (similar to how pre-lcs you'd support SR tourneys with announcements, or who you sometimes promote 'featured streamers') would really help show people that 'hey, this game mode has a meta and some structure now'.

Another issue that used to happen in the past was D/c's. Everyone I knew would think of HSGG 'Dominion it's fast, it's fun' and then just go 'oh well, it's just Dominion' and troll or disconnect. Again, that's changed for the better in the game mode, but a lot of old players (that I know at least) still think of Dominion in that light. So until Riot does something to change that perception of the game mode, I don't think it'll ever get the recognition from players it deserves.

Beyond that though I think it's all been covered. There definitely needs to be a better mid objective. Whether it's a monster, or a 'super capture point' or something along those lines, we definitely need more than a single relic for each team in the middle, which I almost never see contested at all.


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ManWolfAxeBoss

QA Analyst

10-24-2013
5 of 6 Riot Posts

Yes, and there's plenty of counter examples too. Why isn't everyone playing swtor? What happened to Pepsi clear? And so forth.

We could go back and forth forever. But like I said in an earlier post, there is plenty that could be done for all of our alternate maps. Again, I know that's a super lame, nebulous answer that no one wants to hear.


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IronAegis

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManWolfAxeBoss View Post
Either way, resentment is unproductive.

MOBA's aren't better than fighting games because fighting games are "flattened." I think we're all mature enough to understand that. I think we're also mature enough to know that we're not discussing the worth of the mode. We're just examining why it may not be as popular as some people think it could be.

I still stand by my belief that ultimately, players decide what is popular.
I don't think that resentment is the proper emotion, maybe frustration. Many Dom players (I enjoy the mode, but I can't take any credit) have gone to great lengths to promote Dominion even as Riot had left it to rot (No nice way to put it). Now that the mode is getting a modicum of attention, I personally would just like to know what Riot's long term plans are for the mode besides the tweaks we've gotten so far. There are small steps that Riot could take to help bring players into the Dominion fold or at least present Dominion as a viable game mode. Most Riot posts that mention Dominion seem to be in a negative light (see Morello's recent post). This cements many players' views that Dominion is a joke, and so many don't take it seriously.

Say what you will about players deciding what is popular, but the bottom line is Riot will need to get the word out if they have any plans to have Dominion become successful. If Riot presents Dominion as a joke mode or at the very least an unpopular failure, how can you expect the players to combat that image?


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManWolfAxeBoss View Post
Yes, and there's plenty of counter examples too. Why isn't everyone playing swtor? What happened to Pepsi clear? And so forth.

We could go back and forth forever. But like I said in an earlier post, there is plenty that could be done for all of our alternate maps. Again, I know that's a super lame, nebulous answer that no one wants to hear.
There's a reason I'm writing a letter to Morello. I know there's nothing you can do. And it might have to go higher than him, to someone who can slap people in marketing till they get the point that Dominion is a thing too.

I just don't think it's fair to place the burden primarily or solely on the players when the players have been told through Riot's actions that this is something that doesn't matter. It's not competitive, and it's barely supported (because of a lack of people, not because of a lack of enthusiasm on the part of the people that are there), so why should they care?


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Malah

Senior Member

10-24-2013

We can argue with MWAB all day over issues such as map perception and promotion, but he can't do anything about those issues. And almost all of the rest of his company simply does not care about us.

He's a designer. Talk with him about design. Don't pester him about other issues that he can't do anything about, because we're either going to run his patience down and piss him off or goad him into saying something that will get him in trouble. He's all we got, so let's not do either of those.

Let's talk about things that he can actually do.

On that note, please no CDR enchant. Just poke the SR people to do something about CDR itemization overall, or work on your own items for us.


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Nexus Crawler

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManWolfAxeBoss View Post
Yes, and there's plenty of counter examples too. Why isn't everyone playing swtor? What happened to Pepsi clear? And so forth.

We could go back and forth forever. But like I said in an earlier post, there is plenty that could be done for all of our alternate maps. Again, I know that's a super lame, nebulous answer that no one wants to hear.
You don't need to defend yourself MWAB we know you're on our side. Your hands are most likely tied, and it's possible you even feel as impotent as we do when it comes to getting things in for a mode we love.

Also I think it's Iron above me that said frustration not resentment. This is the case. It's frustrating having years of promises, and then having nothing happen. It's frustrating not being able to do "enough." It's frustrating that we don't have transparency or as much as we'd like. It all boils down to frustration, and that my friends is eating the Dominion community up.


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Golly

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronAegis View Post
I don't think that resentment is the proper emotion, maybe frustration. Many Dom players (I enjoy the mode, but I can't take any credit) have gone to great lengths to promote Dominion even as Riot had left it to rot (No nice way to put it). Now that the mode is getting a modicum of attention, I personally would just like to know what Riot's long term plans are for the mode besides the tweaks we've gotten so far. There are small steps that Riot could take to help bring players into the Dominion fold or at least present Dominion as a viable game mode. Most posts that mention Dominion seem to be in a negative light (see Morello's recent post). This cements many players' views that Dominion is a joke, and so many don't take it seriously.

Say what you will about players deciding what is popular, but the bottom line is Riot will need to get the word out if they have any plans to have Dominion become successful. If Riot presents Dominion as a joke mode or at the very least an unpopular failure, how can you expect the players to combat that image?
Very well said.

I'm going to be less eloquent here for a moment because I am a frustrated person. I'm frustrated that we as a whole have worked to promote the mode w/o any expectation of payment or on the large - recognition.

We've done a laundry list of things to try and work on the mode because we partly thought that if Riot saw what the community could do, it could do it's part as well.

I am in a position where I loved playing Dominion, so I sacrificed my personal time that I could have easily dedicated to other things in order to help grow the mode. These things don't come w/o cost.

If Riot cannot come up with at least one reason to promote the mode in the smallest way, what incentive is there for us? Up until now, I haven't even considered incentive because I assumed that at the very least Riot would eventually do some promotion of the mode.

I... I just don't know how I think about this. I know it shouldn't be this frustrating b/c it's just a game. But it's frustrating putting so much time and effort into something as a community and being presented w/o reciprocation simply because "people will generally decide what is and isn't popular."

Like others have said before me, tell that to any Marketing dept for any company in the world... walk down the hallway to Riot's own marketing dept and say that sentence.

If people generally decide what is and isn't popular, why advertise for LoL? Why have tournaments for SR? Why make promotional videos? Add infinite list...

I just can't...


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Paqi

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaWraith View Post
Dominion is the chunky tomato sauce MOBA...
Haha, pretty much


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Marisa

Senior Member

10-24-2013

I wanted to quickly interject my opinion as someone who was quickly turned off by Dominion and stayed with SR.

One of the biggest shifts in Dominion is the flat level of growth of champions as the game progresses; it doesn't feel very much like early game in Dominion decides a lot of the game or creates meaningful advantages; a lot of what decides the game is late game death rotations or death cycles and the ability to poke and contest objectives. I played a number of games of Garen with friends who absolutely adore Dominion, going bot against ranged champions with escapes or disengage. I could win bot and potentially take pressure off of other contested points, but I couldn't build up a significant lead as easily because it was both much easier to contest objectives against me and harder for me to contest objectives, especially against poke champions who could just sit in brush and take health relics. Even when we got a significant lead it felt meaningless because characters in Dominion transition no matter what you do in the game to them; Ezreal can die early and still farm up a Muramana and IBG and be almost even in levels because of the massive amounts of free gold and Experience that exist and he will still be good at denying objectives because of how much power poke on Dominion is over most melee. The format of the game never really "snowballs" which is probably a positive trait for a lot of people who like Dominion, but feels really unrewarding for me and feels like a lot of games are decided primarily from the picks and then from the "late game comps" that result from having every champion in your games having large amounts of gold. Early game doesn't feel important; you just kind of play around until about 10-15 minutes in and then one side automatically wins because it has more of a late game and more pokers.

Just my thoughts as someone who could never get into Dominion while we're discussing why Dominion is unpopular compared to SR. Maybe it's just not for me, I dunno.


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Golly

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malah View Post
We can argue with MWAB all day over issues such as map perception and promotion, but he can't do anything about those issues. And almost all of the rest of his company simply does not care about us.

He's a designer. Talk with him about design. Don't pester him about other issues that he can agree with us on, because we're either going to run his patience down and piss him off or goad him into saying something that will get him in trouble. He's all we got, so let's not do either of those.

Let's talk about things that he can actually do.

On that note, please no CDR enchant. Just poke the SR people to do something about CDR itemization overall, or work on your own items for us.
Then who are we supposed to talk to? He's not only a designer but the essentially the community manager for Dominion. He is the person we're supposed to talk to about this.

I don't think he's a bad guy. I <3 MWAB. He works his ass off for Dominion and every encounter I've had with him has been a good one.

But he IS the person we're supposed to talk to about this.