Future of Dominion: Chat with ManWolfAxeBoss

First Riot Post
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IronAegis

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isysar View Post
I agree. A big public jolt is just what is needed.
We haven't been given any indication that Riot plans to do that, however :/


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Golly

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronAegis View Post
We haven't been given any indication that Riot plans to do that, however :/
According to this quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManWolfAxeBoss View Post
As for explanations, attitudes, support, etc. that's difficult to analyze and I feel like the conversation will just degenerate into arguing over a ranked queue. In the end, I think it's the players that decide whether or not something is popular. I know this isn't the response you want to hear and I'm sorry.
We aren't going to get one anytime soon. I think fixing balance issues may be all we can expect.

edit: Emphasis mine.


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IronAegis

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golly View Post
According to this quote:



We aren't going to get one anytime soon. I think fixing balance issues may be all we can expect.

edit: Emphasis mine.
I think you're right about that. It is a bit disheartening.


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Nexus Crawler

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronAegis View Post
I think you're right about that. It is a bit disheartening.
More than a bit, especially considering the amount of time and effort people have put into fighting for this map. I had a conversation with Allea earlier and I kept thinking to myself "why should we have to fight? we've fought a hell of a lot (some a absolute **** ton). Riot should start fighting for us for a change (some Rioteers excluded).

Frankly I'm depressed about the map, and I'm considering again either finding something else or just outright leaving LoL because of it.


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Weeks1

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Uh, that's kind of disingenuous. He was talking specifically about player attitudes about the map re: flatness and such, and what they could gather from the data they analyzed. I don't see anything in there saying "we won't work on Dominion marketing". Other things seem to imply this, but not MWAB's post.


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Golly

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeks1 View Post
Uh, that's kind of disingenuous. He was talking specifically about player attitudes about the map re: flatness and such, and what they could gather from the data they analyzed. I don't see anything in there saying "we won't work on Dominion marketing". Other things seem to imply this, but not MWAB's post.
In the context of what he was saying, he is intimating that ultimately Riot is not in control of how popular a mode is. That ultimately players decide what popularity a mode enjoys.

And he is right... to a point.

It is ultimately up to the playerbase how popular Dominion is, but that doesn't mean Riot can't promote the mode to create interest or popularity... which is why this is disappointing. Because, yes, this is what is implied here... by MWAB. Unless he wants to clarify the statement and say I'm wrong... I could be, and I don't mind admitting it. But the way the statement is, that's how it comes across.


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ManWolfAxeBoss

QA Analyst

10-24-2013
4 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez Obama View Post
I guess the “problems” with dominion are that
1: the priority of the objectives don’t change that much over the course of the game compare with those in SR
2: The objectives tend to be more subtle in dominion. Some of the objectives are similar to those that already exist in SR (bait out flashes when ganking, split pushing and baron baiting to gain better positioning/open up opportunities)
3: since the objectives are somewhat user driven and not map based entities, they aren’t as satisfying.
This is what I was getting at with meaningful secondary objectives. The secondary objectives of Dominion are much less concrete than those of SR, which I believe makes it less accessible. A game's phase is typically defined by its objectives so it's easy to understand how a casual Dominion player could consider the mode "flattened." Now, is a flattened game mode "flawed?" It depends on who you ask.

I hate football. I think it's boring to play and watch. I like ultimate frisbee. They're both fairly similar and, in my opinion, ultimate has all the same things going for it that makes football popular. Why isn't it? Is it the disc? Is it because one has the NFL backing it? Is it culture? Maybe it's all of them. Back to the chicken and egg. Either way, resentment is unproductive.

MOBA's aren't better than fighting games because fighting games are "flattened." I think we're all mature enough to understand that. I think we're also mature enough to know that we're not discussing the worth of the mode. We're just examining why it may not be as popular as some people think it could be.

I still stand by my belief that ultimately, players decide what is popular.


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Malah

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManWolfAxeBoss View Post
I still stand by my belief that ultimately, players decide what is popular.
Tell that to the marketing industry.

The said, I'm fine with what you give us - it's apparent that's all we're going to get, and it's reached the point where I've accepted that.

Hence why I've long since turned my spending towards companies that care about my satisfaction.


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Nexus Crawler

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malah View Post
Tell that to the marketing industry.
Going to say something similar. There's a good reason why there's billions of dollars tried up in advertisement.

Also social media does quite a bit to influence popularity.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManWolfAxeBoss View Post
This is what I was getting at with meaningful secondary objectives. The secondary objectives of Dominion are much less concrete than those of SR, which I believe makes it less accessible. A game's phase is typically defined by its objectives so it's easy to understand how a casual Dominion player could consider the mode "flattened." Now, is a flattened game mode "flawed?" It depends on who you ask.

I hate football. I think it's boring to play and watch. I like ultimate frisbee. They're both fairly similar and, in my opinion, ultimate has all the same things going for it that makes football popular. Why isn't it? Is it the disc? Is it because one has the NFL backing it? Is it culture? Maybe it's all of them. Back to the chicken and egg. Either way, resentment is unproductive.

MOBA's aren't better than fighting games because fighting games are "flattened." I think we're all mature enough to understand that. I think we're also mature enough to know that we're not discussing the worth of the mode. We're just examining why it may not be as popular as some people think it could be.

I still stand by my belief that ultimately, players decide what is popular.
I don't want resentment, and I don't hold much towards Riot (well some to Morello, but that's because of an ongoing issue and his lack of attention to us). I just want solutions. And Riot is looked up to as the Decider of What Is Cool In League; of course no one will pay attention to a mode that Riot themselves (by and large) doesn't seem to find worth their time.

The mode has problems, sure. But beyond that, it's foolish and nearsighted to say that "the players decide what is popular" after the mode has effectively been on not even life support for most of its existence. Any business will tell you, small and large, that marketing is how they live or die. and if you don't put in hard time showing your game off to people, no one will even know it exists.

I apologize that the above sounds a little like harping. But it's all true.