An Introduction to our vision changes in preseason

First Riot Post
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Tulfrir

Senior Member

10-24-2013

ward limits stink, how do we provide infinite vision as supports


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DJANGO UNCHAINED

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PubME View Post
As a corollary to this, vision can be important.

OK - Vision Wards can still be used during Akali (and similar) stealth for the sake of teamfights, and they can be focued during teamfights. I'm thinking of a team retreating, and the enemy taking down the pink ward instead of chasing. I like this strategy possibility being open - to chase, or not to chase?

But this begs the question: Has Riot considered the ramifications of team mates NOT warding? I really, really like the sound of this new system, but I don't see anywhere that Riot's put a ton of thought into ways to get people to use it.

I'm even thinking about Lyte's opinion on the topic of a new report: "Refusing to Ward". If they're free, this should - and could become - necessary for the sake of the PB&J Team.
You can't stop people from being bad. Raise your MMR by being a good player and don't worry about others.

Also, people who falsely report will have their reports mean nothing. If they keep falsely reporting for trivial things like not warding, that can lead to a ban themselves.


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Meph

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Senior Member

10-24-2013

Has the idea of making the ward limit a "soft cap" been discussed?

As in, placing more than 3 stealth wards does not remove the prior wards, but causes their duration to be reduced to 1/5 the remaining duration? (ie: wards placed past 3 would cause the prior placed wards to last a very short time (<36 seconds) instead of just destroying them).


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Postal Badger

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Recruiter

10-24-2013

A curiosity thtat popped up with the trinkets.

Will they be targetteable? As in, targetteable my Teleport and such?

Because it gets a bit worrysome that Jax, Lee Sin, etc. Can now just get a free jump without even bothering to buy a ward beforehand.


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Warriorman21

Senior Member

10-24-2013

1. Why would you ever choose Lens over Totem?
2. Are you removing Oracle's from the game? Oracles might waste the effect of the ward cap since supports would be expected maintain 3+1 wards at all times.
3. Just quick math, if Stealth Wards and Vision wards both cost 75 gold, then (assuming the effect of the Trinkets and vision wards cancel out) that would cost 16 gp10 to maintain 3+1 wards (also assuming pinks are killed every 3 minutes or so). That means one person's entire base gp10 can still be going to wards, keeping the sightstone meta.



I feel trinkets are a really good direction to move in. wp rito


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Flytrap

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulfrir View Post
ward limits stink, how do we provide infinite vision as supports
That's the point of having a ward limit...


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Sageoffire

Senior Member

10-24-2013

A 3 ward limit for sight wards (Stealth wards?) is NOT cool. It NEEDS to be bumped up to at least 4 if Sightstone isnt being removed. If a player gets a sightstone you dont really have a reason to buy a ward again the entire game except in super specific cases.

Either the limit needs to be bumped up to so you have a reason to use both sightstone AND wards if you want to, or sightstone needs to get the boot.


I prefer a painful bloody murder of the sightstone. ive always hated being required to buy that damned thing


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Renaito Yuujou

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Senior Member

10-24-2013

Like, can we have Lens replace Clairvoyance? Like, completely? Because I think that'd be great.


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JoDari

Senior Member

10-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyraknoss View Post
These changes seem very much like a rich get richer, poor get poorer setup. The gap between high and low level play widens even further, and I would not be surprised to see people driven away from League by placing in low/mid silver and having to suffer through every single game being a 3 ward affair. I really think the ward limit needs to be doubled at the minimum to keep low elo from becoming even more of a cesspit than it already is.
This will be a real problem. Now supports can only buy 3 wards. Top/Mid/Adc still won't buy any wards at all. Maybe the jungler will get wards. Same as today.

I don't like these changes either.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

10-24-2013
6 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noraver View Post
That all sounds great, but really Xelnath, you know exactly who's going to take what.

Top: Ward
Jungle: Sweeper
Middle: Ward/Mini CV
ADCarry: Mini CV
Support: Forced into taking the ward for early game

Why this way?
Tops need wards. Junglers need to get rid of those wards. ADCarries and mid laners? Well, mid can ward if they'd like, but if they're a caster they'd like the mini CV to hit those skill shots. Same goes for AD during brawls bottom.
And of course, Supports will be forced to get the ward. I was looking forward to picking up the Mini CV as Support, but I can honestly say I feel like once again they'll just get pigeonholed. That, or literally everyone in the game will have Mini CV late-game (since there's a ward cap) and just place their own wards. Then there would arguably be too MUCH vision.

Not judging yet, as I'm curious to see the way this turns out, but still, I'm sure ADCarries will find some way to force the Supports into taking the trinket they don't want. Really hoping this doesn't happen.
We've actually found picking the lense or scanner is the most powerful thing a support can do early game - grants a ton of bush control and face-check safety. Since warding is the default behaviour tho - this is probably a good thing.