Fizz's changes might as well be a buff.

First Riot Post
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Talinis

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxtasan View Post
There should always be room for counter-play, no matter how fed you are. You should never be completely safe. Playful Trickster is an untargetable get out of jail free card which means no risk for being out of position. This isn't skill shining through. No-one liked Yi's untargetable shenanigans either but he didn't have a free flash on the end of his untargetable phase...

Nobody liked Yi's untargetable because he would do insanely high autos and kill a target swiftly and have the ability instantly reset 1 second later so he could spam from one target to the next to the next.

And there is PLENTY of room for counter-play. You might want to try going in game to learn how to instead of you know, sitting on the forums? A jail free card? Hmmm, sounds like flash, sounds like shaco Q, sounds like Ezreal E, sounds like Kassadin R, sounds like... you get the picture. It's 400 yard gap opener. A large number of gap openers are larger then that distance. And when he uses his E, guess what you can use? CC. Or if you don't want to wait, you can use some instant CC's like Fiddlestick's fear or lissandra's CC's. Or you can simply bait it as well.

Fizz's E was fully built to take into account both ways for enemies to counterplay fizz and for the Fizz player himself to counterplay others. Fizz was built on the premise that the higher the skill of the player, the more they could outplay their opponents using E and other abilities. Opponents need to then show how to bait out Fizz's E, or quite simply, have ways to outdo it. They need to show they can learn to counterplay his counterplay.


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0xiDIzE

Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxtasan View Post
There should always be room for counter-play, no matter how fed you are. You should never be completely safe. Playful Trickster is an untargetable get out of jail free card which means no risk for being out of position. This isn't skill shining through. No-one liked Yi's untargetable shenanigans either but he didn't have a free flash on the end of his untargetable phase...
It has to be timed perfectly, and the counterplay is still CC. Every assassin has an escape mechanic, and almost all of them are more reliable than Fizz's.

That's clearly not the focus of Riot's balance team anyway, so they know it's not a problem in his kit.


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Merckseys

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Why would this need a correction? Why wasnt it already added at 330 when fizz was introduced? Theres no reason for it to "appear" shorter range than it is.. Thats just bad on riots part for not having it at 330 to begin with.


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Mr Scruffz

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosecutor Lang View Post
So for Elise, it was bigger than the area in order to give more leeway.
But with Fizz, the indicator just doesn't show how far it really goes?
Difference is, the circle Rappel has is an indicator enemies could read and say "If im out of that ill be safe" but it wasn't safe at all resulting in frustrating situations. Fizz doesnt give such an indicator, enemies have to LEARN how far he can go.


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

10-23-2013
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalAtreyuX View Post
So it's already 300 it's just... not 300 with the indicator?
The circle you see when you mouse over the skill icon is smaller than the actual damage area so we're changing how large that indicator circle is to match the actual area the skill effects. Since Fizz's E is automatic smart cast you never see that indicator when using the spell normally, so this change has pretty much no impact on normal play (which is also why's it's been unnoticed for so long, not like anyone's mousing over their skills constantly to check the range on a PBAOE).


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SwagYoloSex

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Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
The circle you see when you mouse over the skill icon is smaller than the actual damage area so we're changing how large that indicator circle is to match the actual area the skill effects. Since Fizz's E is automatic smart cast you never see that indicator when using the spell normally, so this change has pretty much no impact on normal play (which is also why's it's been unnoticed for so long, not like anyone's mousing over their skills constantly to check the range on a PBAOE).
Then why dont you nerf it to 270? That would be quite funny to see how he breaks. Just like everyone else in this game. RIP Ahri.


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Tundra Fizz

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizuhara Satoshi View Post
Then why dont you nerf it to 270?
Hm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizuhara Satoshi View Post
That would be quite funny to see how he breaks.
You just answered your own question.


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SwagYoloSex

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Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MageLeif View Post
Hm...



You just answered your own question.
Everyone already cries at how unbelievably strong he is, and they would love to have him break. Why not give them what they want and see how they regret it later?


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Tundra Fizz

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizuhara Satoshi View Post
Everyone already cries at how unbelievably strong he is, and they would love to have him break. Why not give them what they want and see how they regret it later?
By "everyone", you're talking about only a handful of people on the League of Legends forums.

Compare that to the millions of people who play League everyday who aren't crying.


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HeWhoSpectates

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Imho this nerf hits Fizz in the right spot. He shouldn't be able to outdamage carries after missing both E and R. "Missing E" is fine with me, because he needs it to close the gap, but still getting two-shot even after dodging his ultimate is kinda bad design.