Morello, A Moment of Your Time Please for Pantheon

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Dalems

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10-22-2013

Before this thread gets too out of hand.

Panth's niche is that he destroys the following champs in lane: hard counters fizz, Kass, Jax, Shen, akali, fiora, ezreal, tf. He does well agains zed and renekton.

I agree with the points that all his skills should do ad damage so that black cleaver is better on him/people know what to build against him (getting off a perfect ult on someone and doing 700 magic damage when they built armor doesn't feel good to them).

Panth's itemization is amazing! Going back and running triple long swords is insanely strong harassing build that shuts down people who are forced to take your spears to the face to cs allowing you to get farther ahead.

I personally don't have any issues with his ult cast time since it forces you to actually think before casting and to have correct positioning while split pushing so that you can enter fights.

Later mid game he transition into a penetration utility for his team and a clean up fighter with HHS passive.

This starting builds consist of 2 options:flash+pots, longsword+1hp+1mana. Each having its own strengths and weaknesses.

I am currently happy playing Panth in his current state only change I would make would be to change all his dame types to physical to make blackcleaver feel that much nicer but giving him more ad scaling would put him over the top in terms of raw burst potential.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

10-22-2013

I think the problem with pantheon is simple:

He's a champion who wants a lot of raw AD in a game where good raw AD itemization simply doesn't exist - sure, you can amass a lot of it by building BTs and such, but it means you instantly die if you get looked at funny. This is unsatisfying.

If itemization were better he'd have no issues. But that's probably not a thing that'll happen because ranged carries exist.


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Dalems

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10-22-2013

BT,BC and GA if you pick Panth into a smart matchup the game should be over when you have used 1 or 2 vs procs.


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Merlin the Tuna

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10-22-2013

I may be a little late to the party if McGee is already bringing a rundown back to Live Design, but it'd be nice to see some rejiggering to Pantheon to give him some build flexibility as well. Whenever he comes up, there's a lot of talk of going pure glass-cannon assassin, but he should work as a Bruiser (or Fighter or whatever it is we're calling them now) as well. Beyond the fact that he looks like a frontliner, his kit has a lot going for it in that respect as well. His passive is a huge amount of mitigation over a prolonged fight and scales with both attack speed and CDR. And the crit passive from HSS likewise should serve to give you the power to clean up prolonged fights when everyone has gotten low, akin to a miniature Darius ult.

And yet somehow it doesn't really work. Something like Triforce/Black Cleaver/Randuin's/Visage should be monstrous on him, and it just sort of falls flat. Some of the issues are obvious: For 1, Panth's base AD at level 18 is in the bottom quartile (equal to Soraka's) so the Triforce procs aren't as potent as they probably ought to be. And in a team fight your passive is about as likely to be procced by Soraka's bananas as by Caitlyn's bullets. (Maybe even more likely since you'd like to be stunning Cait.) But there are systemic issues at play related to how he ramps up (or rather, how he doesn't) during laning, and some of that is likely a byproduct of Design focusing on him as an All Long Swords, All The Time champion.


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Asatorrr

Senior Member

10-22-2013

what if pantheons ult is split into two casts, the first he jumps up and the second you aim the landing? i realize this would mean the ring wouldnt show up until the second cast but in terms of giving opponents a fair chance to react you could just incorporate a sound effect to all opponents in his ults range. Or perhaps you have to pick a sort of initial direction to jump in, im thinking like zacs E. actually you wouldnt even have to make pantheons first cast throw him into the air (hed essentially be untargetable) just have him charge up the jump and then shorten the time it takes for him to jump and land.


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WoLFGaRN

Member

10-22-2013

What about changing his ultimate from that dead giveaway circle into an icon that pops up when pantheon is ulting like they did for rengar? This would let us actually use our ult and make people pay for lack of map awareness.


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VelNyeScienceEye

Senior Member

10-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asatorrr View Post
what if pantheons ult is split into two casts, the first he jumps up and the second you aim the landing? i realize this would mean the ring wouldnt show up until the second cast but in terms of giving opponents a fair chance to react you could just incorporate a sound effect to all opponents in his ults range. Or perhaps you have to pick a sort of initial direction to jump in, im thinking like zacs E. actually you wouldnt even have to make pantheons first cast throw him into the air (hed essentially be untargetable) just have him charge up the jump and then shorten the time it takes for him to jump and land.
I think "Witness the true art of war!" would be a nice shout as he jumps into the sky if you need to give a heads up to the enemy


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League of Luck

Senior Member

10-22-2013

Why the hell do people want Pantheon buffed?

Are you insane?


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VelNyeScienceEye

Senior Member

10-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzdaym View Post
Why the hell do people want Pantheon buffed?

Are you insane?
Considering how hard he falls off once everyone catches up to his level, no we aren't insane. Unless the enemy screws up bad in your lane multiple times, then you aren't going to be able to snowball and win the game before he falls off. He's viable, but he needs skill against an unskilled player. He's an all in champ in every aspect. In duels or in taking down turrets, unless he goes all in, he's going to continue to fall behind


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Eph289

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10-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Mallet View Post
Considering how hard he falls off once everyone catches up to his level, no we aren't insane. Unless the enemy screws up bad in your lane multiple times, then you aren't going to be able to snowball and win the game before he falls off. He's viable, but he needs skill against an unskilled player. He's an all in champ in every aspect. In duels or in taking down turrets, unless he goes all in, he's going to continue to fall behind
I'd rather see Pantheon get some more nuance to his kit. There's not a whole lot of depth to him, he either can fight and win a trade with you using targeted abilities, or he pokes at you with Spear Shot until the first case occurs, or he zones you. In the event these decision matrices fail, he simply does nothing but jump in and die.