Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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Taliesin

Senior Member

10-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by X1zz3l View Post
24% AS boost on lvl 5 with 3 stacks?
Meanwhile Jinx with 130%...

Wat

At least give him 40% or sth
ftfy


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Diamond Song

Senior Member

10-19-2013

how to make skarner viable again, legendary skin. already really good with s3 items like trinity/fg.

skarner is also really good in lane with a rushed frozen gaunt into WoTA, tons of sustain on Q, and if enemy wants to gank you just W and run away


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MemeticMachine

Senior Member

10-20-2013

This is ridiculous... this rework really looks like a nerf to me. remove his only (yet useless) heal, then shift everything around and deduct a few stats... skarner's the best jungle duelist because of his q and w. removing AS from w and moving a weakass version to q is an obvious nerf. either buff that stat or increase q ratios. skarner's slow is now as useless as an olaf axe minus the range and cdr. if anything this "change" is making skarner LESS viable
his permaslow is the only GOOD thing about his early ganks, now they are removing it? here's my proposal: give an AS slow to any of skarner's abilities and I'll be satisfied


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Shahamut

Senior Member

10-20-2013

Im sad that I can not sign up for the pbe right now... Skarner is my favorite champion and I only just started playing this year. Oh well, I will just watch and pray everything goes well...


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Reeses13

Senior Member

10-20-2013

So I understand that one the most unfun things about Skarner was how much he stuck to you like glue once he got to you, but that was kind of his thing, right?

From his mechanics preview: "The idea behind Skarner is to get on people, stay on them, and really capture that inevitability of being run down by a predatory creature. Additionally, we wanted to avoid an instant gap closing mechanic so there's appropriate counter-play." -- Morello

So where do these changes leave him? IF he lands his slow, and IF he then manages to catch you, then he can drag you back a ways, sure. But then what? Like other people have pointed out, there was a great synergy with his old Q and his ult. Q once, ult, now your Q slows and they aren't moving. But now I feel like we're moving too far away from what made Skarner so much fun to play for me and many others. I would really like to see him brought back into a usable state, but I don't want to sacrifice what makes Skarner, Skarner


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Hollywood Cool

Senior Member

10-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey all, exciting news! Skarner is coming to the pbe in the next update with his new reworked kit. Here is the changelist and some explanation for why we ended up with these changes:

Base Attack speed lowered by 1%

Crystal Slash
-Mana cost reduced from 20/22/24/26/28 to 16/18/20/22/24
-When target is hit, applies an attack speed buff for 6s that stacks up to 3 times 4/5/6/7/8
-Slow removed from Crystal Slash (moved to Fracture)

Exoskeleton
-Attack speed component removed
-Cooldown lowered from 18s to 14s
-Max movepseed increased from 15/17/19/21/23 to 24/28/32/36/40 and ramps up over 3s
-Duration remains at 6s
-Shield value increased from 70/115/160/205/250 to 75/125/175/225/280
-Shield AP ratio increased from 0.6 to 0.8

Fracture
-Mana cost reduced from 50/55/60/65/70 to 30/35/40/45/50
-Heal removed
-Targets hit are slowed by 30/35/40/45/50 for 2.5s
-Missile range increased 800->1000
-Missile width reduced 120->90

Impale
-Impale now roots targeted champion during the windup animation
-VO for “feel my sting” etc will happen on successful grab instead of cast start


Explanations
-The attack speed buff was moved from W to Q to make Skarner more consistent and less feast or famine
-The slow was moved from Q to E to get rid of the frustrating perma slow of his old Q but also to allow him some more flexibility and ability to make catches/plays with the ranged slow on E
-W speed values are buffed to bring him in line with other similar bruisers
-R now has a more consistent ability to grab targets once he has started casting on them

These changes are still not final, and I want everyone to play the new kit and give us feedback. Thanks again for all of the help with this rework, we think Skarner will be better than ever.

-Scruffy

That's all nice, but here's the problem with this kit. It's far more kiteable than the last one. Unless you also added a preservation of the movement speed buff if you hit an enemy champion (much like a Shyvana W), this is going to hurt Skarner a LOT.

It's not really that Skarner is played 80% less because he's weak and needs change or that he's some kind of menace to the meta that hasn't been addressed yet. He's like jungle Maokai; he's still strong and still effective, but there are far more powerful jungle picks that better fit the current meta. Zac & Jarvan are very popular because of this, while Skarner is left by the wayside. He was popular last season and earlier this season, but since fell out of favor. Same with Hecarim, except Hecarim was destroyed by nerfs instead of the necessity of his kit. Also I think that the AS boost is a little clunky to put on the Q, you should probably find something else.


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DarmanOmegaMan

Junior Member

10-21-2013

I am still upset with the loss of his slowing power. The point of skarner was to get on and stay on forever. Now the only thing he can do is hope to catch someone out, ult them back to his team and then wait for his ult to be up again because his utility is largely gone. The attack speed on his q is nice but it seems too low to convince me to pick skarner over another jungler. Then the movement speed on his w feels too similar to hecarim and not at all in skarners flavor. Skarner is ant-lion, he waits and traps the unsuspecting, he doesn't go charging in chasing things down. That's no how a scorpion does things. Again the slow on the e long range nuke just doesn't seem to fit in my head.

I would really just be happy if you just fixed his ult and left the rest as it was. I would rather play a slightly underpowered unique champion and a weird, flavorless hecarim wannabe.


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Hollywood Cool

Senior Member

10-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarmanOmegaMan View Post
I am still upset with the loss of his slowing power. The point of skarner was to get on and stay on forever. Now the only thing he can do is hope to catch someone out, ult them back to his team and then wait for his ult to be up again because his utility is largely gone. The attack speed on his q is nice but it seems too low to convince me to pick skarner over another jungler. Then the movement speed on his w feels too similar to hecarim and not at all in skarners flavor. Skarner is ant-lion, he waits and traps the unsuspecting, he doesn't go charging in chasing things down. That's no how a scorpion does things. Again the slow on the e long range nuke just doesn't seem to fit in my head.

I would really just be happy if you just fixed his ult and left the rest as it was. I would rather play a slightly underpowered unique champion and a weird, flavorless hecarim wannabe.
Basically this. I pick Skarner because he is good and offers a lot that other junglers don't. Now, why should I pick him? I'm not trying to be mean, Riot Man or Woman. You are trying to help the community and a champion become healthier to the game but you're kinda just reinventing a wheel. It doesn't need fixed. Skarner has problems and clear weaknesses. His strengths lie in getting in close, so naturally kiting is his weakness. Vayne, Cait, Jinx, all have ways of ****ing him over. Same with a few other champions. He's not toxic like proxy Singed and has clear counterplay, he just fell out of favor with the current meta and will be brought back into favor once he's needed again. But with these changes, I don't think he'll be picked much ever.

Tell me Riot, how do you see this Skarner faring in competitive or ranked play? How do you see him as an improvement over the current Skarner? How does he feel to normal people? Is this going to hurt his pick rate even further in the long run? This is what you need to consider and I don't think it has been considered. These changes (except with the root for the ult) are unnecessary.


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Elewd

Senior Member

10-21-2013

Everything about skarner gets buffed.
Removes the heal to give him more power

OMGRIOT WHY YOU NERF SKARNER NOW HE USELESS YOU SUCK AT BALANCING GOD RIOT QUIT YOUR JOBS.

Honestly its a buff not a ****ing nerf, Stronger shield, stronger movespeed, stronger attackspeed, stronger slow, Higher scaling, Additional CC on ulti.


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Irish Red Cap

Senior Member

10-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey all, exciting news! Skarner is coming to the pbe in the next update with his new reworked kit. Here is the changelist and some explanation for why we ended up with these changes:

Base Attack speed lowered by 1%

Crystal Slash
-Mana cost reduced from 20/22/24/26/28 to 16/18/20/22/24
-When target is hit, applies an attack speed buff for 6s that stacks up to 3 times 4/5/6/7/8
-Slow removed from Crystal Slash (moved to Fracture)

Exoskeleton
-Attack speed component removed
-Cooldown lowered from 18s to 14s
-Max movepseed increased from 15/17/19/21/23 to 24/28/32/36/40 and ramps up over 3s
-Duration remains at 6s
-Shield value increased from 70/115/160/205/250 to 75/125/175/225/280
-Shield AP ratio increased from 0.6 to 0.8

Fracture
-Mana cost reduced from 50/55/60/65/70 to 30/35/40/45/50
-Heal removed
-Targets hit are slowed by 30/35/40/45/50 for 2.5s
-Missile range increased 800->1000
-Missile width reduced 120->90

Impale
-Impale now roots targeted champion during the windup animation
-VO for “feel my sting” etc will happen on successful grab instead of cast start


Explanations
-The attack speed buff was moved from W to Q to make Skarner more consistent and less feast or famine
-The slow was moved from Q to E to get rid of the frustrating perma slow of his old Q but also to allow him some more flexibility and ability to make catches/plays with the ranged slow on E
-W speed values are buffed to bring him in line with other similar bruisers
-R now has a more consistent ability to grab targets once he has started casting on them

These changes are still not final, and I want everyone to play the new kit and give us feedback. Thanks again for all of the help with this rework, we think Skarner will be better than ever.

-Scruffy

I like some of the changes Scruffy. The issue though is why does he only get a 24% AS increase and that is at max stacks and rank 5. This is going to slow down his jungling even more which is what put Skarner on the back-burner of junglers in Season-3.

The slow is nice but now it forces a leveling of fracture early if you want to have successful ganks which again puts his AS in a rather horrible position since you can't max Q first for the AS boost + slow.

Something I don't see explained to is with his shields movement speed. You say the duration is 6s and it ramps up over 3s. So he gets a 3s movespeed boost over-all, kinda nice for someone as easily kite-able but this is what I'm worried about. Does this movespeed increase persist for the FULL 6s or does it immediately disappear at the destruction of his shield as it does now?

The root on his R is nice since it will let him catch gap-closer champions without feeling like a negligible tank with no ultimate. Also, once I see the numbers I expect Q or E to do some pretty high base damage for the shift of power and the mana cost. If his Q keeps the same base damages on it then you absolutely HAVE to give it a flat mana cost or you will go oom just for dueling potential.

Edit: Also, the CD on Fracture needs to be able to get reset by his ultimate/passive for perma-slowing potential. Does this mean It should be able to reset after 1-2 AA's no. But it doesn't need to be a 8-10 second CD on a 2.5s ranged slow or Skarner will NEVER be able to catch anyone even with the shield increases.