Introducing Team Builder

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hellioning

Senior Member

10-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
I'm at home right now, so I don't have the data in front of me (meaning I can only give the trends, not digits). For all but two cases of hypothetical team compositions the average of a random sample of players (across the range of skill levels) were varying degrees of positive--super positive when things were "top tier" at the time, very positive when things were in the meta or small deviations thereof, and regular 'ol average positive when the composition was a little nonstandard but the champions were still in viable positions (so no solo Sona). Even compositions featuring one or two champions that weren't considered "common" at the time did well.
.
But I want to play solo Sona! It's not my fault you guys made her a caster minion...

And I severely doubt people will want to play with my ADC Leblanc, but who knows.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Pryotra

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
I'm at home right now, so I don't have the data in front of me (meaning I can only give the trends, not digits). For all but two cases of hypothetical team compositions the average of a random sample of players (across the range of skill levels) were varying degrees of positive--super positive when things were "top tier" at the time, very positive when things were in the meta or small deviations thereof, and regular 'ol average positive when the composition was a little nonstandard but the champions were still in viable positions (so no solo Sona). Even compositions featuring one or two champions that weren't considered "common" at the time did well.

So in this case, "many players are ok with" means "the average reaction was a degree of positive". Not a little 10% slice My pedantic self would go nuts if I tried to pass that off as many!

Now, that's across the general playerbase. Which means in certain subgroups (for example, if you're in certain Ranked tiers) perceptions may vary. But since this feature is also going to debut with a more general audience, that should be ok. For something like Ranked we'd need to evaluate some other assumptions and challenges.
Ok. Did you do any research on champions intentionally nerfed out of viability? Or champs riot specifically has agreed to being very weak?

I feel that if the team actually wants to win in the slightest, these champions get MASSIVE toxicity directed at their players simply for choosing them. Heck, I don't even have to lock heimer, if I were to go into a blind pick right now, click heimer without locking, I could see my team immediately go "welp, I guess this game is whatever goes." Locking in draft produces 1 outcome, although a long time ago it used to be 2.

Outcome one: Get trolled from lock to finish, until you leave post game chat. In ranked this is the default reaction for a Heimer lock from my experience.

Outcome two, doesn't really happen anymore from my perspective: Team works around it, but is generally hostile about it. Ganks, if they even come to help, will be to the point where the jungler is almost starving you. team gets mad at every death, lost tower, or escaped kill, and pins that blame on you, regardless of presence or action. They still try to win, but the player of the weak champion is left no doubt that the team hates them for their choice.

I honestly at one point tried maining heimer, and this was the general reactions I got. It was so bad I just stopped playing him altogether, because while I enjoy the playstyle, the reactions were so bad I honestly considered straight up quitting league till you fixed him. And who knows if I would have come back at that point.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

davin

Senior User Researcher

10-16-2013
91 of 101 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pryotra View Post
I feel that if the team actually wants to win in the slightest, these champions get MASSIVE toxicity directed at their players simply for choosing them. Heck, I don't even have to lock heimer, if I were to go into a blind pick right now, click heimer without locking, I could see my team immediately go "welp, I guess this game is whatever goes." Locking in draft produces 1 outcome, although a long time ago it used to be 2.
Draft mode is a different story (I can't really speak to that from these data), but we did explicitly try comps with champions that we thought would be considered "unviable" at the time (based on how forums were discussing 'em). We put them in roles/positions that made sense for them at the time (like jungle Eve), and the average response was positive. It was less positive than some of the other setups, but still positive overall. Which actually surprised quite a few of us--we were worried some champions would basically make a composition unacceptable to players. While that's true for some, it's not for the majority. Which is cool!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

The MechE

Senior Member

10-16-2013

Okay, I read this. It actually sounds really awesome, but I am bothered by there being no bans.

I can also think up of many ways to abuse this system if champion changes are ever given the green light either just to be a terrible person, or just to abuse it and get my way, which isn't good.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

7thDeed

Junior Member

10-16-2013

YES finally you can pick your role!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Henry Plainview

Senior Member

10-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
Draft mode is a different story (I can't really speak to that from these data), but we did explicitly try comps with champions that we thought would be considered "unviable" at the time (based on how forums were discussing 'em). We put them in roles/positions that made sense for them at the time (like jungle Eve), and the average response was positive. It was less positive than some of the other setups, but still positive overall. Which actually surprised quite a few of us--we were worried some champions would basically make a composition unacceptable to players. While that's true for some, it's not for the majority. Which is cool!
Jungle Eve is not a great example, as she is very good just maligned by the idiots on GD...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ladayen

Senior Member

10-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
some champions would basically make a composition unacceptable to players. !

Let me guess... Teemo? :P


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

limbrok

Senior Member

10-16-2013

I am going to avoid voicing some of my concerns as it seems that they've been addressed already in this post and it seems you guys are definitely aware of what issues could arise with this in Ranked modes if it ever were to be incorporated into them. My suggestion is, and I don't know if someone else has brought this up, but:

As a solo queue player, I definitely like to fill in every once in a while. I don't like the current iteration where I have to pick 1 champion, 1 role, and 1 lane. It would be nice to create a dynamic list of some preferred champions and roles which would be nice for various reasons:

First, for a person who loves, for example, Elise, you could choose the following setup:

1) Elise / Jungle / Tank
2) Elise / Top / Mage
3) Elise / Bot / Support

Which will then check for various teams which would not only reduce queue times but give me more flexibility in playing my main in multiple roles rather than choosing the role/lane that just feels "nice" at the time.

Or, for someone like myself, I'd really love to do something like this:

1) LeBlanc / Mid / Mage
2) Lissandra / Mid / Mage
3) Lissandra / Top / Mage
4) Vayne / Bot / Marksman
etc. etc. and maybe have it capped at 5 or so.

I know you said earlier there currently isn't a "Fill" option for the solo player which kind of saddens me, because it's kind of like hitting "Random" in normal queue. It gives it a nice change-up from game to game, but in a more organized manner. This is sort of a compromise, and you can actually combine both aspects together:

Example set-up

1) LeBlanc / Mid / Mage
2) Lissandra / Mid / Mage
3) Fill / Fill / Support (though any 3 or all 3 can be "Fill")

The system would check games in a certain amount of time for games that would accept LeBlanc mid. If no matches are found in the given time, it will move to the next element until it has gone through them all and tries them again until a match is found.

(As a Computer Science nerd, this sounds like a really fun and complicated 2D Array iteration, everyone's favorite!)

EDIT:
And I forgot to bring up one other point when I was talking about Elise. How does one classify something like a tanky AP champion, such as Elise, Diana, Vlad, etc.? Would I put Tank or Mage? If I specify I want to be an Elise / Top / Mage, does that imply that I am going to be building an item like Rabaddon's, or can I still build items that dip in both realms like Rylai's and Abyssal Scepter? I have obviously my own opinion, but I don't think it is the same for everyone and could cause some in-game "discomfort" for those that expected one thing and got something different.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

YahYahTrick

Senior Member

10-16-2013

So what I have gathered from this is the following.

This will basically end up with a 5 person premade team. If im not wrong ill come fix it.

This will basically if incorporated into draft/ranked allow solo que people to play ranked 5s or simply show up as a 5 man premade team. Similar to the current party matching screens that are currently in place.

I think this would be nice in general all around so that it can open the floor to more communication. I see the biggest issue with the game is the lack of communication. People get into a lobby and are so hell bent on stating what they want. They dont care about anyone else. They dont wanna talk about something. Its FK you I want this and you cant stop me mentality.

I get into lobbies atleast 3x a day and see some jagoff say. "________ or feed." Well this is a perplexing problem since looking at the match history they DID get the role they just called, and they DID feed. So pretty much its a give them that role and suffer or dont give them and suffer.

Oh the problems in this game.

Honestly I dont mind playing support, I dont mind jungling, I dont mind top, dont mind mid, dont mind adc. However I dont wanna jump into a game and just try to play some random role. When I would like to play top or jungle.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________
Additional thoughts__________________________________________________ __________________

So I see that you select a champ? Is this a mandated champ that you will play or will it just show the champ you would like to play as a preferred champ?

If its preferred champ I can see people trolling support ques. Since there will be no "set" way to make someone play something.

I also see issues in draft games since champs can be picked/banned causing their "picked" champ to no longer be available.

I think if it has you select your champ(s) prior to queing up and joining the lobby. You should have to pick backups (2 champs 3total). Since I can see lots of people getting to the lobby and all the sudden they are free to pick w\e they want when they qued for support. Now they are locking in vayne saying kill lane bot.

So I suggest that if you have to pick champs before hand it would look like this. That way you have alt champs incase of bans, picks, and or counters.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg EN.jpg (758.3 KB, 67 views)

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kelsin

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-16-2013

Others have already said this (I know) but just wanted to add that the only feature I know I will want is ability to change champion after the fact, or not specify champ when joining (only lane/role). I often pick support based on ADC etc so I would hate to queue as one and not be able to change her later (if the full team agrees).

Besides that I can't wait to try this out. I'm really happy with what I can see so far and with a lot of the answers on here. I love the focus on communication and "building" a team

Can't wait!