Introducing Team Builder

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Friendly Cadaver

Senior Member

10-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Damnit, Lyte, now there's nothing I have to post about that's nearly as cool as this feature for the rest of my life.

How can I compete with this??
You are the Wizardlock, Lord of all, how does this have anything on you? Mere peons desperately needing attention if you ask me....




(I'm one of those peons that loves this though)


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Pushing Sharks

Member

10-16-2013

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Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
It's not there yet We're working on it but don't have a timeline yet.
Keep up the good work! I'm super excited about this, I pretty much pissed myself when I saw this post! I'm gonna test the **** out of this when it's activated on the PBE. I hope we get notified when it's up


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Friendly Cadaver

Senior Member

10-16-2013

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Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
In the playerbase, there's a large % of players who are willing and happy to select their Champion first before seeing the rest of the team composition. However, we also know there's a % of players who want to see the team first, discuss strategy, then choose a complementary champion--this is especially true for Marksman or Support players.

However, when designing Team Builder we had to balance the flexibility we were offering players with the time it's going to take to build a team and get into a match. In an ideal world where decisions are all made at lightspeed, we could offer players every single decision point we could think of; however, we start approaching scary long times just to build a team together because you're thinking about 100 decisions every single lobby. Not only do more decisions lead to longer team building times, we also begin to deal with the psychological effect of too many choices possibly overwhelming players who just want some flexibility but ultimately just want to have fun.

We're still trying to find the right balance of flexibility and cost of time, which is why we've decided to initially offer features like allowing team leaders to select "Any Role" as a role option. We'll collect data and see how the flow of the experience is and decide if we need to add more flexibility features as we test on PBE.

Someone touched up on this, but I wanted to elaborate upon it. "What if players could vote to allow another player to repick their Champion?" was what this person said. Well, maybe the player that wants to change his or her Champion must actually press a "Repick" button, then pick a new Champion. But the system won't actually change it; instead, it shows the other players what that person would repick if they allowed it. If the other players (3 out of 4 maybe?) decide to allow the change, they vote yes and that player whom wanted to repick is "forced" to repick that champion. This would prevent people from being allowed to pick whatever they want for troll purposes but allow better cohesiveness and teamwork among the players. You can say what ever you want, but if you choose a champion to repick to, but the other players don't allow it, the system won't allow it. But if they do, it actually causes that repick to take effect.

I hope this makes sense.

-Friendly Cadaver


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Porotopia

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Senior Member

10-16-2013

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Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
You can change your masteries and runes at any point in the lobby, and can definitely chat with your teammates about what pages you'd like to use.

A lot of players have asked whether Team Builder will have bans, and it will not. Team Builder is a new re-design of Champion Select, and is focused on the core experience. We've considered how a Team Builder "draft mode" might look like, but that's not the focus of the initial experiments.

I agree that there's a lot of potential value in allowing players to multi-select Champions or Roles, and allow team leaders to choose which one they are interested in; however, there's a lot of complexity to these designs--especially from the tech side. For example, if 2 players are suggested to a party, and both of them have Miss Fortune as a proposed champion, then we now have to consider additional collision cases. From a Game Design side, if you allow multi-select Champion designs you now force team leaders to choose the preferred champion among a mix of 3 (or however many you propose). If you propose only 1 Champion, say a B Class Champion, many players will say "OK, that's fine, let's play!" If you propose 3 Champions, a B Class with 2 A Class Champions, you now actually hurt champion diversity because you force team leaders to make a value judgment here and many will opt to select the A Class Champions even if they were OK playing with the B Class.

These are all solvable problems, but we wanted to focus on getting the core experience to players first. Then collect feedback, and iterate as we go.
Thank you very much for the reply Lyte. I'll admit I didn't think of the collision issue. As for the team captain being able to ban one out from a person's pool, you're right maybe that isn't such a great idea.

Thanks for your time.


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Fomorian27

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Senior Member

10-16-2013

The more I think about this system, the more excited I get. Do you, as devs, forsee this overtaking the normal queue as the dominant game mode? Let's consider the facts: the majority of the playerbase plays normals and never even touches ranked because it's too "hardcore;" They feel like playing gangplank mid and don't want to be told that it's against the meta or worry too much about the perfect team comp. However, in normals you can get the situation where you aren't able to call mid fast enough and don't get to play your preferred champ/role for something like 10 games in a row. In ranked you'd be able to play your role at least some of the time thanks to pick order, but in normals it's a crapshoot. This solves the problems that hold normals back while not offering any downsides (that i can see). So what are your thoughts? Bigger than normals?

By any chance, were the role definition changes done in anticipation for this rollout?

You guys have been teasing a solution to champ select issues for a long time, and I must say, you delivered big.


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WhoopsiGoldburg

Senior Member

10-16-2013

This probably got answered on all 130 pages but, I'm not going to back track.

Is it going to be a separate queue? Or is it going to be a separate option? Like you start up the teambuilder, get your team formed and then a leader starts the normal queue?


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Dagnii

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Senior Member

10-16-2013

I really like to ADc mid and I hope this isn't going to make me have to wait 30 minutes to an hour to get a queue. I feel like this will just end up like World of Warcraft where if you want to queue as DPs you're going to have to wait forever, but if you tank or heal you will get an instant queue.


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onboardtonowhere

Senior Member

10-16-2013

God another trash system by lyte that will go down just as trash as the honor system


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Siyanor

Senior Member

10-16-2013

So it sounds like I'll be able to choose Karma, and hopefully people will only accept Karma if they want a Karma on their team and not if they want to play "troll-the-Karma."

I always do well with Karma. I have 0 wins with Karma, because my team stands at the tower doing literally nothing except saying to report Karma.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

Follow RiotLyte on Twitter

10-16-2013
87 of 101 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fomorian27 View Post
The more I think about this system, the more excited I get. Do you, as devs, forsee this overtaking the normal queue as the dominant game mode? Let's consider the facts: the majority of the playerbase plays normals and never even touches ranked because it's too "hardcore;" They feel like playing gangplank mid and don't want to be told that it's against the meta or worry too much about the perfect team comp. However, in normals you can get the situation where you aren't able to call mid fast enough and don't get to play your preferred champ/role for something like 10 games in a row. In ranked you'd be able to play your role at least some of the time thanks to pick order, but in normals it's a crapshoot. This solves the problems that hold normals back while not offering any downsides (that i can see). So what are your thoughts? Bigger than normals?

By any chance, were the role definition changes done in anticipation for this rollout?

You guys have been teasing a solution to champ select issues for a long time, and I must say, you delivered big.
I'm pretty excited about the feature myself--as a player and as a scientist.

There's been several long discussions about whether Team Builder might become the dominant queue, whether we should leave it as an independent queue and all sorts of similar issues. For us, the most important thing for launch is that Team Builder can be a healthy queue, and that Normal Blind Pick and Ranked Mode can be healthy queues that co-exist with Team Builder. Depending on the data, there are several directions we could go from there, but it's really too early to predict.

Regarding role definition changes, we definitely worked closely with Morello's team on those. The reason we worked on those was not just because we had been researching Team Builder, but because research showed that lower level players really had no clue what terms like AD Carry or AP Carry meant and it didn't really give players a proper expectation of a champion's potential playstyle.