@Morello About the current state of fighters

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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

10-15-2013
2 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LVNsNASmurf View Post
You've started with saying Garen is the ultimate "out of combat sustainer" a champion who is damaging and tough, fast and ignores poke.

Do you have any other niches for fighters already worked out like this? I don't mind if they don't really fulfil them atm, but it would be good to know.

(Also, in the same vein, I'm trying to think what MF's distinction is. Massive teamfight blaster?)
Some stuff worked out, bunch more in progress. Details to follow once things are a bit closer to ready, lot of iteration and discussion still underway right now.

And yeah, Miss Fortune's niche is the ADC you pick when you want to try for some degree of AOE team comp strat (see Curse of the Sad BulletTime strats from earlier this season). She's got some other stuff going on as well of course (strong early laner, good against healing champs, decent map movement), though those attributes are secondary and shared to some degree with a number of other ADCs. Also important to note that, when a champion's got a clear niche like that, there'll be times when they're a more common pick and times when they're less common, based off the popular strats and team comps at the time. That's something that's quite healthy for the game (within limits of course, 100% or 0%, to go for the extreme example, would be a major problem).


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PopeDonger420

Member

10-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Some stuff worked out, bunch more in progress. Details to follow once things are a bit closer to ready, lot of iteration and discussion still underway right now.

And yeah, Miss Fortune's nice is the ADC you pick when you want to try for some degree of AOE team comp strat (see Curse of the Sad BulletTime strats from earlier this season). She's got some other stuff going on as well of course (strong early laner, good against healing champs, decent map movement), though those attributes are secondary and shared to some degree with a number of other ADCs. Also important to note that, when a champion's got a clear niche like that, there'll be times when they're a more common pick and times when they're less common, based off the popular strats and team comps at the time. That's something that's quite healthy for the game (within limits of course, 100% or 0%, to go for the extreme example, would be a major problem).
I like the Thunder Dome: J4 locking in the enemy team that is sitting on top of rumble+mf ult.


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

10-15-2013
3 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarathval View Post
Nasus would be the slow building infinite power Fighter then I am guessing?
Yeah, Nasus is in a better spot already than a number of fighters, offering distinct strengths in each phase of the game (strong push early, carry shutdown mid+, massive Q damage really late). Don't know if the team have any plans for him, might need some tweaks, has a lot of elements of a distinctive gameplay identity already though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PopeDonger420 View Post
Thank you for the response. I can appreciate this direction but, what about fighters with kits that are all over the place like Irelia?
Irelia by contrast's going to be tougher given she's got a bunch of standard fighter tools and some mechanics (CC reduction and sustain especially) that can be difficult to make both balanced and satisfying. Approach we're currently investigating with kits like hers is to look at elements already on them that are distinct, though under rewarded, and experimenting to see if we can exaggerate those aspects of their character more, then compensating by removing more generic power elsewhere.


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Arkaia

Senior Member

10-15-2013

I appreciate the fact that you'd like to broaden the base of certain archetypes a bit more by broadening the definition then building up subsections with their own individual strengths and weaknesses so no two characters are exactly the same, though it does seem like it would be a lot of work considering the most popular setups seem to be.. well.. Exactly the same in some kind of hierarchy of godtier/craptier


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LVNsNASmurf

Senior Member

10-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Some stuff worked out, bunch more in progress. Details to follow once things are a bit closer to ready, lot of iteration and discussion still underway right now.

And yeah, Miss Fortune's nice is the ADC you pick when you want to try for some degree of AOE team comp strat (see Curse of the Sad BulletTime strats from earlier this season). She's got some other stuff going on as well of course (strong early laner, good against healing champs, decent map movement), though those attributes are secondary and shared to some degree with a number of other ADCs. Also important to note that, when a champion's got a clear niche like that, there'll be times when they're a more common pick and times when they're less common, based off the popular strats and team comps at the time. That's something that's quite healthy for the game (within limits of course, 100% or 0%, to go for the extreme example, would be a major problem).
Thanks for confirming, because as someone who doesn't play many if any fighters, they all look kinda "ehhhh' from the outside.

As for MF, she's my main ADC cos I can bully, scale hard, teamblast and also lifesteal facetank stuff. Seriously, 2xBT and a LW really surprises people midgame.


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GhostStalker

Senior Member

10-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Yeah, Nasus is in a better spot already than a number of fighters, offering distinct strengths in each phase of the game (strong push early, carry shutdown mid+, massive Q damage really late). Don't know if the team have any plans for him, might need some tweaks, has a lot of elements of a distinctive gameplay identity already though.



Irelia by contrast's going to be tougher given she's got a bunch of standard fighter tools and some mechanics (CC reduction and sustain especially) that can be difficult to make both balanced and satisfying. Approach we're currently investigating with kits like hers is to look at elements already on them that are distinct, though under rewarded, and experimenting to see if we can exaggerate those aspects of their character more, then compensating by removing more generic power elsewhere.
This is exactly what you guys did to ziggs isn't it? Making him destroy minions so he can push the tower better, then gave his passive a boost to help him destroy them towers.

Still Wished Zigg's Minefield nerf was reverted :\


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SKY816

Junior Member

10-15-2013

How are you going to make melee champions viable in Season 4?
Any specific plan for Fiora?


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PopeDonger420

Member

10-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkaia View Post
I appreciate the fact that you'd like to broaden the base of certain archetypes a bit more by broadening the definition then building up subsections with their own individual strengths and weaknesses so no two characters are exactly the same, though it does seem like it would be a lot of work considering the most popular setups seem to be.. well.. Exactly the same in some kind of hierarchy of godtier/craptier
I personally would rather have them take their time with this because as it stands you only have a few viable fighters. I think Renekton is cool and all but let's have someone else do the chopping, shall we?


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A Dying Dream

Senior Member

10-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Irelia by contrast's going to be tougher given she's got a bunch of standard fighter tools and some mechanics (CC reduction and sustain especially) that can be difficult to make both balanced and satisfying. Approach we're currently investigating with kits like hers is to look at elements already on them that are distinct, though under rewarded, and experimenting to see if we can exaggerate those aspects of their character more, then compensating by removing more generic power elsewhere.
Point being is that it feels like Irelia truly lacks those distinct mechanics.


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PopeDonger420

Member

10-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Irelia by contrast's going to be tougher given she's got a bunch of standard fighter tools and some mechanics (CC reduction and sustain especially) that can be difficult to make both balanced and satisfying. Approach we're currently investigating with kits like hers is to look at elements already on them that are distinct, though under rewarded, and experimenting to see if we can exaggerate those aspects of their character more, then compensating by removing more generic power elsewhere.
I really hope that when the time comes you can consider Irelia's fanbase in your decision. If this is the direction you are taking fighters I'm pretty sure its going to come down to a rework or retweaking but Irelia's kit, though difficult to balance, is still fun in its own way. We have a thread going on about this very topic around pages 8-10 if you care to comment or look at it.


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