Riot is nerfing champions that don't deserve it

First Riot Post
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Dark Binding

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
I know the goal with Morgana changes are not nerf. They are a shift in abilities.

Auto-farming basically for free (get two Doran's Rings or something) is really non-interactive and just not great gameplay. Our goal is to give her extra kill potential (get hit with a Q, get dunked by missing health W) and late-game scaling (health scales with the game, so does W).

If the changes are not enough to compensate for the loss in farm power, then that's something we're happy to change.

But to your point, Lux's E does much less damage than Tormented Soil. Tormented Soil deals some ridic damage.

Edit: And to be perfectly clear, to my knowledge Morgana is the only champion who can kill the back minion line with one ability at champion level 5. Max Force Pulse has a base damage of 280. Rake deals 260. Tormented Soil deals 425. At rank 3 it deals 275 wither a higher AP ratio than Force Pulse. Bit of a difference there
Do you mind telling me how I'm supposed to keep an enemy in my soil long enough to take advantage of the (very slight) damage increase when they are low health if the soil lasts 5 seconds and my binding only lasts 3 at max rank? It doesn't feel good to Morgana players when we invest 130 mana into an ability only to have an enemy walk away from 80% of the damage.

Do you mind how I'm supposed to farm enough gold to get at least an hourglass so I can fulfill my role as an initiator on the team with the lowest attack speed and attack range in the game?

Furthermore, all the Tormented Soil damage is taken over 5 seconds, meaning a wild teammate might appear and steal all the creeps I just spent 130 mana on. Do you care to comment on this?

I apologize if I sound rude but I'm really frustrated with the fact Morgana is taking a hit to her farming and Zed, Gragas, Zyra, et cetera are still keeping their wave clear.


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Rule 34

Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by phreak View Post
i know the goal with morgana changes are not nerf. They are a shift in abilities.

auto-farming basically for free (get two doran's rings or something) is really non-interactive and just not great gameplay. Our goal is to give her extra kill potential (get hit with a q, get dunked by missing health w) and late-game scaling (health scales with the game, so does w).

If the changes are not enough to compensate for the loss in farm power, then that's something we're happy to change.

But to your point, lux's e does much less damage than tormented soil. Tormented soil deals some ridic damage.

Edit: And to be perfectly clear, to my knowledge morgana is the only champion who can kill the back minion line with one ability at champion level 5. Max force pulse has a base damage of 280. Rake deals 260. Tormented soil deals 425. At rank 3 it deals 275 wither a higher ap ratio than force pulse. Bit of a difference there
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Riot Morgageddon

Player Support Tech Specialist

10-13-2013
2 of 3 Riot Posts

Morgageddon pokes his head in.

The issue with just comparing full damage is context though. How often will you get a W on any champion in lane to do the full duration of damage? 2-3 ticks is about all you can get usually, coupled on top of a snare. Most all other mages and ad assassins mid can do that damage instantly with a single spell. In terms of risk, they're far safer to do damage. Morg has to rely on that mechanic in order to somewhat safely farm.

Morg walks into auto range to farm, Talon can rake then to farm and apply damage. If Morg waits to drop her W to counter, Talon might take 1-2 ticks and walk out, or even blink on top. Kass can just use his targeted silence and walk out. The point isn't that her damage at full time is high. It's that it needs to be in order to farm, because of the fact it's damage over time. If it was a blunt 425 instantly, that'd be brokenly OP. But it's a slow burn, which is why she suffered from mid/late game farming issues and why the change seemed to be good, but appears to be numerically weak for the purpose of remaining relevant to farm both early and late game.


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Dark Binding

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Morgageddon View Post
Morgageddon pokes his head in.

The issue with just comparing full damage is context though. How often will you get a W on any champion in lane to do the full duration of damage? 2-3 ticks is about all you can get usually, coupled on top of a snare. Most all other mages and ad assassins mid can do that damage instantly with a single spell. In terms of risk, they're far safer to do damage. Morg has to rely on that mechanic in order to somewhat safely farm.

Morg walks into auto range to farm, Talon can rake then to farm and apply damage. If Morg waits to drop her W to counter, Talon might take 1-2 ticks and walk out, or even blink on top. Kass can just use his targeted silence and walk out. The point isn't that her damage at full time is high. It's that it needs to be in order to farm, because of the fact it's damage over time. If it was a blunt 425 instantly, that'd be brokenly OP. But it's a slow burn, which is why she suffered from mid/late game farming issues and why the change seemed to be good, but appears to be numerically weak for the purpose of remaining relevant to farm both early and late game.
This is what I was trying to say - although Morgageddon has put it much more concisely. Have all my upvotes fellow Morgana lover.


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Vsin

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Mother of god. A Rioter just disagreed with another Rioter on the forums.


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Sublime Fighter

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
he said one champion ability, those are 3


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AquaDragon42

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Morgageddon View Post
Morgageddon pokes his head in.

The issue with just comparing full damage is context though. How often will you get a W on any champion in lane to do the full duration of damage? 2-3 ticks is about all you can get usually, coupled on top of a snare. Most all other mages and ad assassins mid can do that damage instantly with a single spell. In terms of risk, they're far safer to do damage. Morg has to rely on that mechanic in order to somewhat safely farm.

Morg walks into auto range to farm, Talon can rake then to farm and apply damage. If Morg waits to drop her W to counter, Talon might take 1-2 ticks and walk out, or even blink on top. Kass can just use his targeted silence and walk out. The point isn't that her damage at full time is high. It's that it needs to be in order to farm, because of the fact it's damage over time. If it was a blunt 425 instantly, that'd be brokenly OP. But it's a slow burn, which is why she suffered from mid/late game farming issues and why the change seemed to be good, but appears to be numerically weak for the purpose of remaining relevant to farm both early and late game.
Why couldn't we get more calm and well said explanations over at the Olaf thread that SmashGizmo started? He never really explained anything about why he changed Olaf the way he did, Morello just tossed the phrase "counter-play" left and right thinking it would solve the problem and neither one seemed to actually listen to the feedback they asked for.


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Dark Binding

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sublime Fighter View Post
he said one champion ability, those are 3
That doesn't change the fact Zed can clear waves faster than Morgana and that his abilities cost him nothing. He can also do it at range with his shadows. There is no downside to farming with Zed. There are downsides to farming with Morgana.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaDragon42 View Post
Why couldn't we get more calm and well said explanations over at the Olaf thread that SmashGizmo started? He never really explained anything about why he changed Olaf the way he did, Morello just tossed the phrase "counter-play" left and right thinking it would solve the problem and neither one seemed to actually listen to the feedback they asked for.
I, for one, felt that the Olaf changes were explained, but nobody wanted to listen to them, and the use of the word "counterplay" made sense to me.


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AquaDragon42

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerglinator View Post
I, for one, felt that the Olaf changes were explained, but nobody wanted to listen to them, and the use of the word "counterplay" made sense to me.
I know what counterplay means, it means for the experience to be fun and interesting for both the player and the opponent, it is just Olaf had so much counterplay shoved into him that he is not fun to play and boring to play against. His only gap closer was gutted, he cant stick to his opponent and his entire kit revolves around auto-attacks, which means he needs to be able to stick to his opponent. Gizmo even admitted that the Q still needed to be worked on and his E needs to be buffed a bit....which makes me want to ask them why they released a champ they new was not done yet.