### New Ahri vs Old Ahri Graphs (Math)

First Riot Post

Hydoid

Senior Member

So is Ahri going to do more damage than before if she lands E? Or will she still do the same damage as now if she lands E and less than now if she does NOT land E? I am confused.

Arkara73

Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak
As a math nerd
a=b
a^2=ab
a^2-b^2=ab-b^
(a-b)(a+b)=b(a-b)
a+b=b
b+b=b
2b=b
2=1

Only a real math nerd can solve this

TaranSF

Senior Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkara73
a=b
a^2=ab
a^2-b^2=ab-b^
(a-b)(a+b)=b(a-b)
a+b=b
b+b=b
2b=b
2=1

Only a real math nerd can solve this
Stop Dividing By Zero.
But really your subtractions just created a solution which is zero.

quezala

Junior Member

poor ahri

quezala

Junior Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak
1. A freaking ton of her damage comes from non-skill shots. That's why the nerfs are aimed at W and R. Because you don't get to outplay Ahri. If she has the stats on you, you just die. You can't outrun her. You can't CC her for long enough. You can't even juke her. You just die if she hits her buttons in the right order.
Sounds like akali, but at least ahri has skill shots so there is some room to outplay.

HermesTheTurtle

Member

I was sent here by a friend of mine who was ECSTATIC about the Ahri nerfs (he hates that champion with a passion.) After looking over your excel sheets, I was not convinced. For starters:

1) If you ask someone to "check the math," you should keep your spreadsheets clean and easy to read. It was hard to understand what your assumptions were and what formulas you decided on. Not to mention a lot of your data points are unnecessary (AP is an arbitrary number and did not need as much mathematical input as you gave it.)

2) After sorting through and understanding your spreadsheet after 15 minutes (far too long if you expect supervisors to rifle through your work), I noticed you were inconsistent in your application of charm amplification or DFG amplification.

All in all, your data is wrong in a lot of places.

I took the time to make a data sheet using simpler nodes and evaluating only single target damage.
(I don't know how to insert a graph into a forum post like the OP did. I'll edit this post later if someone teaches me, otherwise the link is under attachments.)

Damage spikes you see in the graph correlate to skill order. The assumption was that Ahri did not skill W until level 4, ult until level 6, and skill order being R-Q-W-E.

Conclusion:
Single-target damage for Ahri with these changes is greater than the old Ahri NO MATTER HOW much AP Ahri has if she starts her combo with Charm for the damage amplification.

You can include the damage from DFG at any point (ideally before the Charm lands but it can be after) and it should not change the overall result: New Ahri beats Old Ahri if you lead with Charm.

This is what Riot intended with the changes. Is this a buff? Obviously not (nor did they say they were buffing OR nerfing Ahri.) Rather, it is a change in design intent with the champion.

More counterplay. That's it. They lowered the damage if you only hit a target with non-skill shots. They increased the damage when you did land one (Charm). More interaction between the players is good.

As a side note, this is vastly different from Brand's old champion design (before the inconsistency of his ult) because Ahri still has reliable damage in her W and R. More people should play Brand again, the passive/ult synergy has made his damage output more reliable than before (and his W damage is HUGE!)

Admittedly there is a slight nerf now to her team fight. To an extent, this does lower her damage.. Her W has less damage (unless she's hitting multiple champions with it). And her ult most definitely contributes less damage AoE wise.

However, lately Ahri has been used as an Assassin by nearly all levels of gameplay (from Bronze to competitive play.) Moreover, because of her status as a mage, she has easy access to CDR (more rotations and charms) and utility (Rylai's comes to mind) to boost her damage output and contribution to a team fight.

All in all, I think the community should embrace these changes.

Final note: I'm sad that a Rioter spent time to go over this thread. How this thread hit the front page of reddit represents a growing voice that wants to protect Ahri's strength. But the math and proof is wrong which just goes to show the public is not always right. Or rather, it's easy to mislead the public, especially when someone comes along and says "Check the math" when it's a bit to cluttered and difficult to actually check but it supports the cause.

Have faith in Riot. Have faith that they have employees who excel in math and can even program damage output for their champions and any changes they wish to make for them (I know some websites can do it. No reason Riot does't have its own programmers that can do the same.) Have faith they know what they're doing AND they have the community's best interests in mind.

TL;DR OP you're wrong. lol

Attached Images
 Graph.jpg (68.4 KB, 44 views)
Attached Files
 Ahri Damages.xls (94.0 KB, 26 views)

EUW ForumAcc

Senior Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak
.
TL;DR
I'm a carry main and I approve of assassin nerfs.

Nofacekill3r

Senior Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak
I am not denying that we're nerfing Ahri.

I'm denying the sevrrity of the nerfs to Ahri. I'm denying that she's nerfed at all if she lands Charm.

The point of the changes is to condition her high damage upon landing Charm.

So can you explain how her damage goes up when landing charm when charm only effects 1 person? and you nerfed the AOE on her R?

Senior Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entezio
good im glad this bich got nerfed

HermesTheTurtle

Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nofacekill3r
So can you explain how her damage goes up when landing charm when charm only effects 1 person? and you nerfed the AOE on her R?
Without going to deep into the math, the base and AP ratio nerfs on her W and R are made up for by the 20% amplification of the Charm and how it affects her Q, W and R. I think people are forgetting this will affect her Q.

Single-target she will do more if she leads Charm. AoE or multiple targets, she undoubtedly does less.

This isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be since Ahri's goal in the first place was to take out one champion in the team fight. This might be harder to do since you will have to find an opportunity to land charm during the chaos of the team fight, but that's where great Ahri's will use the positional advantages of her ult to do so. OR... you know, save her kit and let someone else lead with the CC.

Or you could just pick up Zed. He can get in and get out just as well, but the damage will be more reliable. But I'm sure Riot will apply these kind of changes to the rest of the assassins to provide more counterplay. Hopefully...