New Ahri vs Old Ahri Graphs (Math)

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Rakazul

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
So if Nasus gained 50% armor pen against withered targets it would NOT be a buff to his Q?
Cept Nasus Q is single target and can take full advantage.


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hashinshin

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakazul View Post
Cept Nasus Q is single target and can take full advantage.
Do you understand how a logical argument works?

So if Nasus's Q became multi target, and then wither gave 50% armor pen, you would then say "WELL SIPHONING STRIKE IS MULTI TARGET!"?


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Ventose

Member

10-13-2013

Ahri is inherently broken with her range and flashes


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Wertilq

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
As a math nerd, I have a few bones to pick with the data you put up:

1. You are showing "difference in damage" and not "total damage dealt." It's really easy to make a super biased graph that says, "LOOK GUYS, FOUR HUNDRED DAMAGE DIFFERENT" except that when your full burst is 4,000 damage, no one cares that you killed TWO Ashes. She's already dead. Showing the numbers in context of actual damage dealt gives a much fairer view of "pain."
Now you know why people go angry with the "teamwork OP" video which did exactly that :P


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Psychotic Man

Senior Member

10-13-2013

I find the graphs about burst with and w/o dfg a bit confusing.
Did you mean all spells used in that burst, with charm landed first?

If that is the case, then numbers on ahri's R should not be nerfed so badly. It would kinda leave R as only a positioning ability (not really a bad thing), but its cooldown (maybe by 10-20 seconds) is high to make it reliable.

Other then that the other "nerfs" to ahri's damage seem legit as her E+W+Q graph shows that using her skillfully will be more rewarding than just randomly pressing keys.


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Wertilq

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
So if Nasus gained 50% armor pen against withered targets it would NOT be a buff to his Q?
Difference is that Nasus wither can't miss, while ahri charm can miss. Q and E for Ahri also uses different targeting mechanisms, one is a pass through boomerang skillshot, the other is a single target skillshot.

More appropriate would be like "if nasus Q hit a target all spells cast on target have duration extended by 2seconds". This would technically be a buff to Nasus, but most of the time it wouldn't matter too much. If you're in range to hit nasus Q, with means a lot less.

AND if it's a buff to Q or not, is just semantics and completely irrelevant.


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TaranSF

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Don't you freaking dare. Pick literally anyone but Teemo.
Are you really trying to say, "Don't you Phreaking dare."

On a related note, I am on board with this Teemo measurement. We should assume zero defense Teemo to be fair and lvl 18. I did some quick math and should this be our standard? Health: 1772 MR: 30 Armor: 78(rounded the .75) feel free to correct if wrong.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

10-13-2013
4 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptamei View Post
And, I assume, Ashe cares.



Anyway, I'm not sure why you'd nerf Ahri and then deny that it was a nerf. The whole point was to reduce her damage.
I am not denying that we're nerfing Ahri.

I'm denying the sevrrity of the nerfs to Ahri. I'm denying that she's nerfed at all if she lands Charm.

The point of the changes is to condition her high damage upon landing Charm.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

10-13-2013
5 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wertilq View Post
Difference is that Nasus wither can't miss, while ahri charm can miss. Q and E for Ahri also uses different targeting mechanisms, one is a pass through boomerang skillshot, the other is a single target skillshot.

More appropriate would be like "if nasus Q hit a target all spells cast on target have duration extended by 2seconds". This would technically be a buff to Nasus, but most of the time it wouldn't matter too much. If you're in range to hit nasus Q, with means a lot less.

AND if it's a buff to Q or not, is just semantics and completely irrelevant.
It is a buff to Q. Her Q will sometimes deal more total damage, and never less damage, due to these changes.


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Enjuine

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Senior Member

10-13-2013

It just seems to me that high high damage should be conditioned upon landinb both parts of Q, not E. Q seems like it is supposed to be the main damage skill, and it is the one that is trickiest to hit both parts of. The advantage to leading with E is that it makes both parts of Q easier. You could accomplish the same thing without pidgeonholing her by shifting more of her damage into Q rather than E.

Or, maybe that's what you want? She is played as an assassin but she has always kind of doubled as a sustained DPS mage as well. The slated changes will make her more hit or miss in the assassin role but kill her in the DPS mage role.