New Ahri vs Old Ahri Graphs (Math)

First Riot Post
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Shadow Aura

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealSlumdog View Post
Dude, what is wrong with you...

Install game. Play Game. Have fun. Uninstall. Don't waste time man because looking back you will laugh at yourself...

What was going through your head when you used spreadsh!t... Even Ahri doesn't give two fcuks about your spreads!ts
People who likes playing Ahri cares about these nerfs.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

10-13-2013
1 of 7 Riot Posts

As a math nerd, I have a few bones to pick with the data you put up:

1. You are showing "difference in damage" and not "total damage dealt." It's really easy to make a super biased graph that says, "LOOK GUYS, FOUR HUNDRED DAMAGE DIFFERENT" except that when your full burst is 4,000 damage, no one cares that you killed TWO Ashes. She's already dead. Showing the numbers in context of actual damage dealt gives a much fairer view of "pain."

2. There's a lot of extraneous useless points on the graphs. Tracking Ahri's 800 AP burst at level 5 is disingenuous because that's actually impossible in a real-game situation. I realize some cropping may make the graphs harder to track, but showing, "Damn -140 on a level 4 Q-W combo?" is extremely bias-inducing.

3. Your choices in data are disingenuous. What I saw from your graphs are that in almost every single case, your single target damage goes up if you land charm. That's the intended behavior. Showing "GUYS SHE DOES SEVEN HUNDRED LESS DAMAGE (if you count ambient damage to targets you don't actually care about because they'll hit minions most of the time anyway and she still one-shot your ADC) is really, really, really poor form. You sought out the worst possible situation, one that actually doesn't ever happen in game, and then said, "LOOK HOW BADLY SHE GOT RAPED GUYS!"

Now, here's the thing about Ahri's design that we're looking to change.

1. A freaking ton of her damage comes from non-skill shots. That's why the nerfs are aimed at W and R. Because you don't get to outplay Ahri. If she has the stats on you, you just die. You can't outrun her. You can't CC her for long enough. You can't even juke her. You just die if she hits her buttons in the right order.

2. As a result of this, we are saying "Okay well your guaranteed damage isn't very high unless you land a skill shot first." Suddenly, counterplay! And with the fact that her single-target burst goes up in every single situation but one, I'm pretty sure the numbers are close. Your graphs also support this. The problem is, you've clouded that by saying, "But she does less damage to minions 95% of the time!"


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jr deputy meow

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
snip
thank god there's someone on this forum who knows how to read critically


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hashinshin

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Phreak I have a bone to pick with YOU!

I care if you kill ashe twice over.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

10-13-2013
2 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
Phreak I have a bone to pick with YOU!

I care if you kill ashe twice over.
That's fair. I rescind my point. Hashinshin cares if you kill Ashe twice.


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hashinshin

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
That's fair. I rescind my point. Hashinshin cares if you kill Ashe twice.
Actually this gives me an idea. Can we start measuring assassin damage in teemos? For example, Zed does 3.5 teemos in damage.


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Nanuk Pihoqahiak

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
That's fair. I rescind my point. Hashinshin cares if you kill Ashe twice.
But Ashe has Guardian Angel. She -has- to die twice! Just let her lifesteal off those wraiths the second time...


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

10-13-2013
3 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
Actually this gives me an idea. Can we start measuring assassin damage in teemos? For example, Zed does 3.5 teemos in damage.
Don't you freaking dare. Pick literally anyone but Teemo.


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Raptamei

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
That's fair. I rescind my point. Hashinshin cares if you kill Ashe twice.
And, I assume, Ashe cares.



Anyway, I'm not sure why you'd nerf Ahri and then deny that it was a nerf. The whole point was to reduce her damage.


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hashinshin

Senior Member

10-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptamei View Post
And, I assume, Ashe cares.



Anyway, I'm not sure why you'd nerf Ahri and then deny that it was a nerf. The whole point was to reduce her damage.
Reduce her free damage, maintain her skilled damage.