There is still no reason Sivir should have 500 attack range.

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Commando Yi

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Her ult's a gap-closer - a pretty good one at that!

Are you really worried about the lane matchups, or teamfighting? It seems people are really focused on laning to me on this.

EDIT: So her team movement speed is NOT a gap-closer? dafuq.
it is very difficult

to explain in words

how horrible and sad this is

i'm guessing you think trundle has a gap closer too


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Agreed - she'd be really strong like this.
How about a compromise in regard to her Attack Range?


Suggestions:

1) Passive - higher bonus MS premium on Ability-Hits... e.g. Autos grant 50MS, Abilities grant 70MS.

2) Ricochet - increased range only while the effect is active... e.g. those 3 Autos additionally grant 50 range.


One or both of these would be:

a) a fair compromise & b) exciting/rewarding gameplay-wise.



@IronStylus @RiotPwyff @Ququroon @Statikk @Morello
IronStylus Riot Pwyff Ququroon Statikk Morello


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Luscious Lenny

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrgos View Post
How about a compromise in regard to her Attack Range?


Suggestions:

1) Passive - higher bonus MS premium on Ability-Hits... e.g. Autos grant 50MS, Abilities grant 70MS.

2) Ricochet - increased range only while the effect is active... e.g. those 3 Autos additionally grant 50 range.


One or both of these would be:

a) a fair compromise & b) exciting/rewarding gameplay-wise.



@IronStylus @RiotPwyff @Ququroon @Statikk @Morello
IronStylus Riot Pwyff Ququroon Statikk Morello
she does npt need more ms bro.

she needs synergy with the ms she already has


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Minishmaster

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
But isn't that also a tuning point? The ricochet and Q tuning alone can adjust that. If she's harassing enemies near minions constantly, then her zonong potential (a laning tool) is high. This is what old Sivir used to do to such a degree you had to gank her to beat her.

I think that's a problem; that the power and play conversations here are muddled. On play, I think "the ult feels bad" has some validity, but on power, I just think that stats and ricochet can get the job done.
"Her kit is basically trash but we can throw some stats on it to make her good" is exactly the problem you are trying to fix with bruisers.

Interestingly, enough, now that I think about it, your post becomes very amusing when you replace "sivir" with "olaf".


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hashinshin

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
ftfy (sorry, I had to take the shot).
You used your monthly allowance of insults on that? Should've at least went for his mother, because she is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO fat.


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Luscious Lenny

Senior Member

10-12-2013

w.e. you do morello

DONT BUFF HER RANGE


the changes i have said like 20 times just in this thread would be fine.


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Rockman

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khristophoros View Post
Keep in mind the ult has a CD. So tune the duration correctly and Sivir still has meaningful moments of weakness in a fight. It shouldn't last the whole fight, but it should last a duration that feels meaningful to the Sivir player.

One thing that has to be addressed is that it would be optimal to W first, R, then W again. Freeze the current cooldown of W while ulting so that if you W first it will not be up after R ends. If you don't W first it will be up. So either way you get 1 W and 1 R.
Well Morello's been pushing for it having moments where it's down. Very intent on Sivir having her "moment of weakness" while she has to wait on CD's before she can begin her onslaught again. If you just increased the bounces (he said thats what they would do instead of changing the CD) it would make the most sense on her ult. I don't know how much would be good, but 3 isn't enough for a sustained DPS champ.


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Commando Yi

Senior Member

10-12-2013

why do you guys at riot throw all this money at a visual upgrade when you're going to leave her in a state where she's not a competitive pick


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Vsin

Senior Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyrä View Post
how is that a bad thing? it might actually at least band-aid patch her pitiful range.
Because then the sum of her kit is that she's just a Twitch who deals less damage.

Backtracking a bit, Morello said that if we buffed her range she'd end up rebalanced as a bad Corki. I'd contend that both her live and PBE iterations already are bad Corkis.

Overall, the target niche that Sivir should fill is sustained AoE...as in, she deals AoE damage really often, and that AoE damage scales well. The higher-end scaling would be what differentiates her from the likes of Corki and his missile spam, while the iteration rate would separate her from Miss Fortune or Twitch.

TBH, if Ricochet bounces could even just half-crit instead of full critting (think: Alpha Strike "crits"), that probably would be enough to secure her late game.


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clear world

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Senior Member

10-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luscious Lenny View Post
w.e. you do morello

DONT BUFF HER RANGE


the changes i have said like 20 times just in this thread would be fine.
Completely agree. Those are like only person issue with the remake.

There are other things I would desire, but if they could at least do that, she would great again to play as.