@Morello: When you consider nerfing Support Zyra. Just remember one crucial thing....

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UnderworldH4des

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginga View Post
But Leblanc is still viable...


Anyways, from reading his posts, it sounds like the changes he plans for Zyra and her plants are drastic. And as he claims he wants her plants to be more of a thing, I think it's safe to say they likely wouldn't be as easy to kill as they currently are.


But anyways, for me I simply max her W so even if my plants die, I just wait a while to pop another back up.

When I said leblanc, i mean nerfed in the wrong spots for no reason....LB got nerfed when no one said anything about it, no QQ's


Also, It won't matter because plants are still little pets, even if you give them SOME survivability, it won't be enough for her because she can't spam them for real sustained DPS, it's poison like Cass we're talking about or Ryze going machine gun or Karthus with his defile with skittles....she has nothing to spam so you can't really do sustained DPS with her.


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Elewd

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yep! But I'd rather weaken and risk balance on a champion if it makes the strategic niche and identity more diverse and clear.
Kindofnecroredpostin But my 2cents on this

Do NOT try and force her into a niche roll where she will be unviable in a competitve sense, shes one of the more entertaining to watch and if you force her niche roll too much you will get Heimerdinger tier or Urgot tier, they are good but so useless without a team composition built around them, i HATE champions like this because i dont feel like i can utilize them to their fullest.


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UnderworldH4des

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Zyra is one of the very very few champions i like and actually enjoy playing...and if she gets nerfed really hard....remember morello...i live close by...I will come there and throw plants at your windows to remind you of the bad things you have done!!!! e.e D;


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8 Bit Legit

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiximus View Post
Burst is everything in League. Sustained damage does nothing but sway people more towards assassins. The only sustain that seems acceptable is the holy trinity top lane to split push you into oblivion. Can we please leave Zyra alone she and Ori are the only ones left of a dieing breed.
This is very true. All this talk of nerfs can mean only one thing... new Zyra skin very very soon! Of course the nerfs won't roll out until after you have bought the new awesome must have skin.


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Renegen

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Can we just buff traditional supports already? Nunu has been deleted off the support charts, Taric is completely useless, Soraka is incredibly situational, Alistar is bad, Lulu lost all her offense, like seriously.

Just buff traditional supports and we will have a diverse bot lane again.


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Aerothal

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Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yeah - I think they're more in control mage territory (you pick them for their utility or other functions, not raw damage).
I really don't like the direction you are going here.
As it is right now, Zyra's popularity is low, to play her correctly is actually difficult, there are enough champions that outplay her, especially mid and you are going to nerf her?
Just because players who mastered her actually play to her strengths and because pros used her a lot during worlds?
And then you are making "funny" jests about her being an AP-Mid...
Her win rate isn't even that high at 51.4% and her ban rate is below 1%.


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UnderworldH4des

Senior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerothal View Post
I really don't like the direction you are going here.
As it is right now, Zyra's popularity is low, to play her correctly is actually difficult, there are enough champions that outplay her, especially mid and you are going to nerf her?
Just because players who mastered her actually play to her strengths and because pros used her a lot during worlds?
And then you are making "funny" jests about her being an AP-Mid...
Her win rate isn't even that high at 51.4% and her ban rate is below 1%.
Also this^


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No Pawns Dawns

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Senior Member

10-08-2013

This is really disheartening. I write up a really long summary of where I believe Zyra currently is and what makes Zyra...well...Zyra. I log on after the gym and work and see Morello only responding with troll posts and saying he's perfectly ok with changing her so she can be more niche? Come the **** on man. This is just sad.


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Diab0Malandro NA

Member

10-08-2013

Lets' go back to the OP point, something Morello hasn't mentioned at all.

The reason that Annie, Fiddle, Nidalee, Zyra even Elise get played as supports it's because other supports got nerfed so they didn't have any impact in the game. That's how bad supporting has become, if you use a support, you should count yourself as being useless and unable to carry games.
I believe supports can and should have an impact in the game, but Riot seems to keep going "nope" whenever you're close to this.

People rarely want to play support, they feel like it's unimpactfull and overburdened with warding aura items, etc... while getting no gold.
There was talk about shifting some warding responsibility away froom support so they are more then ward machines and get 3 items in a 50 hour game, but what for??? They can't do anything with the items cause they're trash, EVEB NID LANERS MAKE BETTER SUPPORTS.

...and if supports get more items, will it be some sort of choice associated with, or just the USUAL dump whatever aura item on support that has no synergy with his kit cause he's just there to be the team's pack mule.
That actually inspires poorer gameplay, since instead of a team working towards a common goal each with his niche, it becomes 1 guy stuck with all the responsibility while the rest are exempt of team responsibilities.


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Valefaye

Junior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yeah - I think they're more in control mage territory (you pick them for their utility or other functions, not raw damage).
If you're differentiating "AP carry" from "Mage" then why don't you add the subcategory inside the game? Oh, right. You made it up on the spot in this thread. There's plenty of AP champions that do massive damage while also controlling/contributing in utility. (Lissandra being the prime example here, but also Lux, Annie, Elise, Orianna, Xerath, etc) So what are you going to do?

Zyra came out as an AP mid and she slowly crept into the bot lane after the main support champions started getting nerfed into the ground. Janna recently started getting played again after a very long hiatus because every other supports' kit is slowly creeping downward toward hers.

Think about how ADCs use to work in S2. Graves, Corki, Ezreal were the holy trinity. After these guys were toned down the ADC pool was fair game and everything seemed balanced. However, the inherent problem with support is that the support champions are so weak that people are looking for any viable option to stick an unorthodox champ like Annie down there in hopes of it being the "next big thing". Thresh being the obvious exception here because of the unique strength of his kit, which also explains his pick/ban status.

tl;dr - you ruin Zyra, you're not solving any of the problems with any of the roles that she's currently fitting in. Support champs suck so people started playing her. Fix supports before you ruin AP mids.