@Morello: When you consider nerfing Support Zyra. Just remember one crucial thing....

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Irelia Carries U

Senior Member

10-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulayaisocoolomg View Post
How many times has zyra been nerfed now? She's going to be the next "Better nerf ____"

Holy sht, when is the last time someone saw irelia in a game?? O_O
idk i see her every game


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Raptamei

Senior Member

10-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginga View Post
If you nerf her because she's too good at supporting, know what will happen when you nerf a balanced champion? Before you nerfed her E's missile speed because she was too good bot? Still balanced at mid.
Diana was meant to be a jungler once, hence the shield and the passive. The nerfs to make her a weaker mid also made her useless in the jungle.


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Raptamei

Senior Member

10-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
The problem isn't so much her ult's huge radius as the fact that it has a huge radius and a knockup for no goddamned reason. It shouldn't have that knockup, period. Her ult should clone plants in its area or spawn additional plants on its own or turn seeds into super plants that are bother ranged and have the slow. You know, something that makes use of her central mechanic rather than just all but throwing out her theme. Also it should have its damage split so that half comes at the beginning and half at the end.
Theme? They gave her seeds just so she had something original, but they didn't bother to make her actually revolve around the seeds. Using them requires no skill whatsoever because they spawn instantly so you just press W whenever you press something else and it'll spawn a plant. God forbid she was like Heimerdinger and actually had to consider where (and most importantly when) to place her plants, but no, Heimerdinger doesn't play like every other champion in the game and requires actual effort to balance so let's just go with a ****ing generic mage with some AoE DoT that looks like a turret.


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mertatron

Senior Member

10-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginga View Post
AP mid Zyra? Totally balanced.

So please oh please, when you feel like nerfing her. Consider doing it WITHOUT screwing over Zyra in her intended role. Pretty please? Remember how Blitzcrank used to exist as something other than a support long long ago? Yet now he really can't function outside of babysitting an ADC? Let's not have that happen to anymore champions. Remember how Alistar used to exist?


KEEP THIS BUMPED OR YOU'LL SUDDENLY FIND ANOTHER CHAMPION NERFED TO THE POINT WHERE SHE'LL REALLY NEVER BE ANYTHING BUT A SUPPORT EVER AGAIN.


PS - one more thing to consider. Maybe if you hadn't nerfed all the traditional supports multiple times in a row, maybe support players wouldn't have started supporting with Fiddles, Annie, and Zyra instead.
totally agree .. I love Zyra mid and never play her bot coz I don't like her bot and I want to be able to play her mid. She's a strong mid with counterplay, and I want her to stay that way ...

maybe as u say ... well certainly it's because othr supports are too weak that Zyra is now a strong support !!


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mertatron

Senior Member

10-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptamei View Post
Diana was meant to be a jungler once, hence the shield and the passive. The nerfs to make her a weaker mid also made her useless in the jungle.
while some champs can be played at 2 or 3 roles

a support should be able to also be mid and/or top or even maybe jungler.

as some mids could switch roles same for tops.

Look at Jayce, Zed, Kha ... they can go mid, top, jungle ... so why should Zyra only be allowed to bot support ?


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AntiSkillshot

Senior Member

10-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrienne View Post
Nerf the range on her root. Balanced.
Thank you for reading. Oh wait... you didn't, did you?
Nerfing the range on her root would also hurt her ability to mid lane as well.

Edit: Well, that's interesting. I commented above Morello.


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Morello

Lead Designer

10-07-2013
1 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginga View Post
AP mid Zyra? Totally balanced.


If you nerf her because she's too good at supporting, know what will happen when you nerf a balanced champion? Before you nerfed her E's missile speed because she was too good bot? Still balanced at mid.

You metaphorically take a middle finger and jab it into the eyes of every player who occasionally send her mid.


So please oh please, when you feel like nerfing her. Consider doing it WITHOUT screwing over Zyra in her intended role. Pretty please? Remember how Blitzcrank used to exist as something other than a support long long ago? Yet now he really can't function outside of babysitting an ADC? Let's not have that happen to anymore champions. Remember how Alistar used to exist?


KEEP THIS BUMPED OR YOU'LL SUDDENLY FIND ANOTHER CHAMPION NERFED TO THE POINT WHERE SHE'LL REALLY NEVER BE ANYTHING BUT A SUPPORT EVER AGAIN.


PS - one more thing to consider. Maybe if you hadn't nerfed all the traditional supports multiple times in a row, maybe support players wouldn't have started supporting with Fiddles, Annie, and Zyra instead.
The primary thing I'd like to do to Zyra is to make her MORE about plants, and less burst mage. I don't entirely know how this will effect which lane, but I do understand the sentiment to the bottom lane vs mid lane approach. This has been why we've been conservative so far (the missile speed change was just something we should have released with).

I can put more complete thoughts on this later, but that's likely the direction we'd look at outside of numbers tweaks.

EDIT: I can't imagine this is the post that's downvoted. You guys really don't want her to be about plants? I'm honestly surprised - is this a "change is bad", or "Zyra is just a mage to me"?


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Annie C Hastur

Senior Member

10-07-2013

Hay Morello.

Are there any plans to nerf Annie as a result of her play in bottom lane?


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Morello

Lead Designer

10-07-2013
2 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
The primary thing I'd like to do to Zyra is to make her MORE about plants, and less burst mage. I don't entirely know how this will effect which lane, but I do understand the sentiment to the bottom lane vs mid lane approach. This has been why we've been conservative so far (the missile speed change was just something we should have released with).

I can put more complete thoughts on this later, but that's likely the direction we'd look at outside of numbers tweaks.
Oh, the range tweak is likely needed overall, even for mid. We can likely add power into plants if we shorten her kill range overall. I missed that point, sorry!

There is some compensation for that primarily for mid Zyra inc in 3.13 on that too, last I checked.


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Spitsonkittens

Senior Member

10-07-2013

Hey Morello, are you still on the balance team?

Also, I heard you were retiring, any truth to that?