A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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Kevinyonson

Junior Member

10-05-2013

Hey scarizard if you could please tell us when the rework would hit the PBE since the championships are over. At least give us a good estimate when it "should" hit the PBE.


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Kazekuro

Member

10-06-2013

His stealth feels like it should be a part of his set. One of the reasons why I love him is because of the feeling he inflict on opponents when he just appears and come flying at you with daggers in hand. That usually gives me 1-3 free hits when done right. This stealth usually makes his ganks more deadly then they should.

I do however feel that that is the only reason for him being so bursty in those situations. That surprise has done me in more times then I can count. It wasn't that he was so bursty in his set, but because of the automatic reaction (Fear) from him appearing.

1-2 seconds is what it takes your brain to register, process and follow through on the information it is given. The surprise his stealth or rather his lunge gives because of stealth gives me the same effect as a disable would. 1-2 seconds to do what I want.

To take away or rather limit his stealth would severely hinder his damage potential more then you realize.


For my suggestions.

Make Bonetooth Necklace something Rengar starts out with. Make it an passive and active item. Active: Immediately stealth's Rengar for 1.5 sec. With a CD of 120-200 seconds of CD.

Keep Savagery at its current CD, lowers its base dmg all ranks by 20. and give him a +2% CDR with each rank he takes in it.

Remove his Roars Armor and Magic Defense bonuses.(Making him more of a all in risk without the defenses he gets. Rengar wouldn't put plate-mail on, he would go in like a 'man')

Bola is now a skill shot, increase range. Bola does not interfere with movement when used.

Ultimate generates Ferocity at +0.50 per sec.


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Parapsychology

Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazekuro View Post
His stealth feels like it should be a part of his set. One of the reasons why I love him is because of the feeling he inflict on opponents when he just appears and come flying at you with daggers in hand. That usually gives me 1-3 free hits when done right. This stealth usually makes his ganks more deadly then they should.

I do however feel that that is the only reason for him being so bursty in those situations. That surprise has done me in more times then I can count. It wasn't that he was so bursty in his set, but because of the automatic reaction (Fear) from him appearing.

1-2 seconds is what it takes your brain to register, process and follow through on the information it is given. The surprise his stealth or rather his lunge gives because of stealth gives me the same effect as a disable would. 1-2 seconds to do what I want.

To take away or rather limit his stealth would severely hinder his damage potential more then you realize.
I completely agree with these statements. There are many times I'm about to jump an opponent under tower in top lane as laneGar, my health half, theirs is lower; I'm banking on dishing out my burst before the enemy can react fully. Is this toxic? Some will say yes (the victim), I say however, this is TRUE opportunism; Rengar's forte, or any assassin for that matter.

So many of us Rengar fans are out of sync, no one is replying to eachother's posts. It's all about 'me me me and my opinion'. We need to start communicating otherwise Rengar will become something no one wants.

Come on guys and gals, we need to come together to find a Rengar kit that fits everyone's needs and wants. It can be done. There will have to be sacrifices from all sides of the board ( From the ones who want no changes like myself, to the ones that want a complete mechanic reformation).

IT seems like riot doesn't like how many variables there are in THIS single champion. Which I bet is a big dilemma.

(Skill cap, comboing correctly, builds, styles of laning, usage of passive)
Rengar isn't about following a specific route of action in build, skill leveling sequence, target prioritizing, etc.)

To me, Rengar is a personality champion. He is truly for the opportunists and risk takers of this game who seek that few second window of opportunity. I've had so many encounters as Rengar where if i waited a split second longer to engage, i could've had a triple instead of diving into death. Then there are times where I walk into a fight at the right time and EVERYTHING goes right, Q comes off cooldown right when i need it, enemies dying left and right.

There are so many variables in Rengar plays it's truly incredible. I first started playing Rengar thinking he was one of the weakest champions in the game, as I became more reactive instead of active as REngar, my whole entire results changed, the feeding in normal changed to the 4-0 ranked starts, the 12-0 games, etc.

What am i getting at? I think we all need to find some common ground for not just Rengar but other champions in the future. We all love Rengar, we love his voice, his art, his mechanics, it's all so entertaining. This excludes the whole lore of the AvP reference which I do find fascinating.

A major issue at hand from what I can gather is the infamous BoneTooth Necklace... too strong? too weak? Personally, I think this item is very strong as an item, but when you look at the big picture, it sacrifices some endgame stats for early-mid game scaling (not to mention another slot). No complaints here. Rengar needs consistent scaling so he doesn't risk falling behind too hard.

It seems to me, with the current remake in progress, riot wants to limit Rengar's snowballing potential in exchange for overall stability. This is going to hurt so many skilled Rengar players, but help the lesser skilled. Could you make BTN a part of his passive and allow leap range to be scaled off ultimate ranks? Maybe beef down the bonuses and replace the leap range bonus from BTN to instead allow rengar the ability to leap to a target he just hit with bola skill shot (maybe just empowered)? This will diversify his mechanics somewhat like Kha'Zix who slowly gains utility as he levels.

I like to start with bola strike in lane
, but now that it's turning into a skill shot, what happens if I use it at level 1 and it misses? For conservative reasons, I don't see any Rengar after this current remake to start with any skill but q. How is that diversifying Rengar

I like to think of Rengar as an aa/caster ad class hybrid. A mixture of a Riven and a Tryndamere persay, don't let him land his spells, cause then his auto attacks will hurt. Rengar relies on spells yes, but he loves those slice n dicing auto attacks.


That's a lot of typing... but what can I say? Rengar is my main =)


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A LlTTLE CAT

Junior Member

10-08-2013

Why must they do more to Rengar? I feel like he isn't an assassin anymore. He gets kited so easily and I feel assassins shouldn't get kited like that. Like kha, you should at least make his q range higher. The radius of the kha q. If he's an assassin, I feel he needs something like that :C


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Kazekuro

Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parapsychology View Post
I completely agree with these statements. There are many times I'm about to jump an opponent under tower in top lane as laneGar, my health half, theirs is lower; I'm banking on dishing out my burst before the enemy can react fully. Is this toxic? Some will say yes (the victim), I say however, this is TRUE opportunism; Rengar's forte, or any assassin for that matter.

So many of us Rengar fans are out of sync, no one is replying to eachother's posts. It's all about 'me me me and my opinion'. We need to start communicating otherwise Rengar will become something no one wants.

Come on guys and gals, we need to come together to find a Rengar kit that fits everyone's needs and wants. It can be done. There will have to be sacrifices from all sides of the board ( From the ones who want no changes like myself, to the ones that want a complete mechanic reformation).

IT seems like riot doesn't like how many variables there are in THIS single champion. Which I bet is a big dilemma.

(Skill cap, comboing correctly, builds, styles of laning, usage of passive)
Rengar isn't about following a specific route of action in build, skill leveling sequence, target prioritizing, etc.)

To me, Rengar is a personality champion. He is truly for the opportunists and risk takers of this game who seek that few second window of opportunity. I've had so many encounters as Rengar where if i waited a split second longer to engage, i could've had a triple instead of diving into death. Then there are times where I walk into a fight at the right time and EVERYTHING goes right, Q comes off cooldown right when i need it, enemies dying left and right.

There are so many variables in Rengar plays it's truly incredible. I first started playing Rengar thinking he was one of the weakest champions in the game, as I became more reactive instead of active as REngar, my whole entire results changed, the feeding in normal changed to the 4-0 ranked starts, the 12-0 games, etc.

What am i getting at? I think we all need to find some common ground for not just Rengar but other champions in the future. We all love Rengar, we love his voice, his art, his mechanics, it's all so entertaining. This excludes the whole lore of the AvP reference which I do find fascinating.

A major issue at hand from what I can gather is the infamous BoneTooth Necklace... too strong? too weak? Personally, I think this item is very strong as an item, but when you look at the big picture, it sacrifices some endgame stats for early-mid game scaling (not to mention another slot). No complaints here. Rengar needs consistent scaling so he doesn't risk falling behind too hard.

It seems to me, with the current remake in progress, riot wants to limit Rengar's snowballing potential in exchange for overall stability. This is going to hurt so many skilled Rengar players, but help the lesser skilled. Could you make BTN a part of his passive and allow leap range to be scaled off ultimate ranks? Maybe beef down the bonuses and replace the leap range bonus from BTN to instead allow rengar the ability to leap to a target he just hit with bola skill shot (maybe just empowered)? This will diversify his mechanics somewhat like Kha'Zix who slowly gains utility as he levels.

I like to start with bola strike in lane
, but now that it's turning into a skill shot, what happens if I use it at level 1 and it misses? For conservative reasons, I don't see any Rengar after this current remake to start with any skill but q. How is that diversifying Rengar

I like to think of Rengar as an aa/caster ad class hybrid. A mixture of a Riven and a Tryndamere persay, don't let him land his spells, cause then his auto attacks will hurt. Rengar relies on spells yes, but he loves those slice n dicing auto attacks.


That's a lot of typing... but what can I say? Rengar is my main =)

I agree with what your saying too. If we don't converse with one another, the out come of Rengar will be one no one likes. Instead of one everyone partly likes.I believe that if they do phase out stealth from his set/Ultimate. They should make Bonetooth N. a mandatory item, and give it and Active Ability; (Stealth for 1.5-3 seconds, Cooldown 180-210 seconds. )


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ReinerOner

Junior Member

10-08-2013

great ANOTHER champion destroyed... thanks riot...


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Koggy

Junior Member

10-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontChangeRengar View Post

Make q a bleed, attack damage up front, %50 ATDam over 5 seconds - empowered 100% ATDam up front - 150% over 3 seconds And stack like Darius's Hemorrhage
Fixed it and it would be really cool if the duration on bola strike will consume bleed stacks for increased slow
I feel like Rengar would really profit with a strong DOT spell so he can jump in burst them down and run away as they die
But other than that I love the other changes you suggested upvote you sir


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DontChangeRengar

Junior Member

10-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by The David Kwart View Post
Fixed it and it would be really cool if the duration on bola strike will consume bleed stacks for increased slow
I feel like Rengar would really profit with a strong DOT spell so he can jump in burst them down and run away as they die
But other than that I love the other changes you suggested upvote you sir
Good ideas but the intent behind my design was to tone down the Q train burst, each Q you land applies a different bleed that lasts it's duration seperate to other bleeds (adding another bleed, would not extend the others but may have different damage to others), so there would be more time to allow for the opposing team to heal back or life steal back the damage done by the bleeds.

And just for a bit of of fun maybe: Rengar gains (Attack speed OR Life steal) proportional to the ammount of bleeds on the target, 5 point savgery bleeds generate more
(Attack speed OR Life steal)

It's a fair concept, and I would FULLY endorse Riot to take this idea and see how they can play with it and even add it to the game


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SUB H3RO

Senior Member

10-09-2013

@Scarizard, any update on Rengar? In all honesty the only champions I play nowadays are Rengar and Khazix, I'm so hyped for this I just can't wait!!!


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Parapsychology

Member

10-09-2013

I bet every single person on this forum who wants the Rengar changes are trash Rengars....

Seriously Riot, if you are going to change a champion THAT much.. then you better let me refund my skin, he's a different champion, a champion, that quite frankly, make's Karma remake look like a walk in the park.

Chain Q's??? This makes his entire kit lackluster now. It use to be all about setting up that EMPOWERED Q, I use to feel like such a PRO when i'd chunk health bars with that empowered Q. Now you're saying the damage compared to empowered W will be close? What kind of change is this? New Rengar looks so boring it's not even funny!

How about this. To clear up Rengar's "TOXICITY," remove stealth from ult but allow others effects to persist for the ultimate's duration after the initial leap (unlimited leap, enemy detection, speed buff, ferocity). This adds counterplay AND riot can leave Rengar's stats/abilities UNTOUCHED.


LEAVE MY LION MAN ALONE!!!!!!



P.S. I know Riot could care less about anything I post or any true Rengar player, so yea, THANKS for destroying Rengar you @$$ HATS.