New AI System

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SauKe

Junior Member

09-17-2013

A few personal opinions about the Bots today:

Does anyone think a new and improved, advanced AI system would be sweet? I feel playing against AI is unrealistic, and needs an update for a few reasons.

First: Due to the absence of an enemy jungler with the duo top lane, the current experience Vs. AI just cannot compare to that of real PvP.

Second: I've found playing Co-op Vs. AI to practice new builds and characters can be difficult with players abusing Sword of the Occult/Mej. Soulstealer, ending the game in less then 15 minutes.

Third (for intermediate bots only): Sometimes when practicing a new build, you can get matched up with extremely low level summoners, who are still learning. This can potentially mean a loss if even two the AI are Tanky with CC/utility.

Fourth: Sometimes Bots can have really perfect instincts and do everything they can to you perfectly. Whether its a flash ignite fiddlesticks flashing into a team fight, or a Blitzcrank that randomly grabs you when you have not been spotted, bots can be better then real players.

My vision:
Similar to the Starcraft 2 AI system, you should be able to choose the enemy team's difficulty in depth, ranging from Easy, Medium, Hard, Harder, and Pro level bots.
There should be a set of starting mechanics, ranging from bots defending their buffs, to invading player's buffs.
The addition of an enemy jungler would be required, programmed to farm and gank when enemy lanes are pushed.
The enemy should be capable of warding and responding to their knowledge of vision.

Please make this popular so it can be seen!


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NInjacatMew

Senior Member

09-17-2013

Bots react to enemies around them, even if you are not visible.


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Takazok

Senior Member

09-17-2013

While the bots are really easy to beat, but they are programmed well except for one main flaw (imo): they don't effectively measure a player's threat. The bots don't really understand that a Darius can dunk them when they're at <500HP, so they continue fighting despite this if they think they can kill Darius. The bots don't understand that Annie can CC+Burst from 100-> 0, thus they don't "play conservatively" while her stun can proc.. etc

Adding jungling bots would be great but I don't think it's the main problem with bots


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SauKe

Junior Member

09-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NInjacatMew View Post
Bots react to enemies around them, even if you are not visible.
That's not right.


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FlowyS

Senior Member

09-17-2013

Even if people don't build snowball items like mejai/sword of the occult, they can usually go 20/0/0 and end the game by 18 minutes.

Riot doesn't want to implement harder bots even though it is possible.

Lastly, co-op vs ai is a bad place to practice new build. Bad opponents will make any build decent. The limiting factor of gold is almost non-existant.


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SauKe

Junior Member

09-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takazok View Post
While the bots are really easy to beat, but they are programmed well except for one main flaw (imo): they don't effectively measure a player's threat. The bots don't really understand that a Darius can dunk them when they're at <500HP, so they continue fighting despite this if they think they can kill Darius. The bots don't understand that Annie can CC+Burst from 100-> 0, thus they don't "play conservatively" while her stun can proc.. etc

Adding jungling bots would be great but I don't think it's the main problem with bots
Great point. New bot mechanics (while it seems very difficult to program) such as being able to know when to retreat, or see when a player walks over a ward, would be a giant improvement for AI play.


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Adamosaur

Senior Member

09-17-2013

Bots do not see you when you are in bushes or in FOW unless they face check bushes, which is rare unless they are chasing you. The main issue with bots is they don't use Flash and their pathing (aside from Shen) is predictable. After only a few bot matches, players can hit Nidalee spears, blitz grabs, etc skillshots with ease. If they take those skills into Normal games, they might have some issues. The other main issue is bots do not use/have the Flash summoner spell. Users having flash vs bots who don't have flash makes it hard to "practice" engages or disengages, since a bot will never flash away or flash with you over a wall to chase.
Bots also have an issue with splitpushing (even in inter). If they are destroying your inhibitors, but one of your teammates is top attacking their outer turret, the entire bot team will go to intercept that player. This makes it very hard to lose a bot match, given it is 1 or 2v5 because of dc/afks/feeders.

EDIT: For people who have an issue defeating bots, splitpushing is how you win, no matter if they all have full builds. Just get teleport or a fast champ, and splitpush while avoiding their same pathing through the jungle.

Aside from this issue, facechecking is actually a main problem with bots (ie the reason they are so easy to kill). Let's say I am playing bot as a supp with an adc. If I am below 60% hp, and I step out then back into a shrub, the bots will follow me into the shrub, walking all the way to me to facecheck it and attack/chase me. Most times they continue to walk into the shrub even if the adc is mauling them with attacks. Silly bots, no wards riot pls :/


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Great Owl

Senior Member

09-17-2013

I haven't seen BuffMePlz or rjcombo lately so I guess they decided that sort of stuff wasn't worth it.


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SauKe

Junior Member

09-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowyS View Post
Even if people don't build snowball items like mejai/sword of the occult, they can usually go 20/0/0 and end the game by 18 minutes.

Riot doesn't want to implement harder bots even though it is possible.
Another great point. The bots are too easy. MUNDO WANT CHALLENGE.
Why wouldn't Riot want to partner with a pro teams from Worlds to create a bot system with new Pro-like mechanics??


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SauKe

Junior Member

09-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamosaur View Post
Bots do not see you when you are in bushes or in FOW unless they face check bushes, which is rare unless they are chasing you. The main issue with bots is they don't use Flash and their pathing (aside from Shen) is predictable. After only a few bot matches, players can hit Nidalee spears, blitz grabs, etc skillshots with ease. If they take those skills into Normal games, they might have some issues. The other main issue is bots do not use/have the Flash summoner spell. Users having flash vs bots who don't have flash makes it hard to "practice" engages or disengages, since a bot will never flash away or flash with you over a wall to chase.
Bots also have an issue with splitpushing (even in inter). If they are destroying your inhibitors, but one of your teammates is top attacking their outer turret, the entire bot team will go to intercept that player. This makes it very hard to lose a bot match, given it is 1 or 2v5 because of dc/afks/feeders.

On two occasions I've had a bot use Flash Ignite and actually use both summoners to initiate me.


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