Let's talk about Soraka

First Riot Post
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Morello

Lead Designer

09-10-2013
13 of 18 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mertatron View Post
I think soraka needs her heal to be less good to make her better

it's her heal that shuts her down ... that's her heal that makes her "weak" and feeling less usefull than most other supports

she still needs to be some kind of niche defensive support ... but with more utility .. a support that feels good other than .. "oh I filled your HP bar .. now I'm just gonna hide for 20 sec" ...
Very doable if we take this direction - though I think this is what defines Soraka to players as well.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Because it basically violates the entire combat paradigm and invalidates any numerics put in place to pace the game. It artificially inflates DPS formulas (if you have to account for DPS with a dedicated healer, then it's nigh-impossible to balance both with it and without it) and sacrifices decision density in-game (harass-style decisions become invalid).
You'll probably need to provide some direct and tangible evidence of that.

'Harass-style' systems being almost the only valid ones in support-holding lanes is just as toxic as it not being an option whatsoever.

Part of the reason melee can't glass cannon that well is directly because Soraka isn't competitive. Think about it.

You just need to have the 'healer' do more than stare at bars for that healing, and this is where your creativity should 'shine'.


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The Scyphozoa

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Because it basically violates the entire combat paradigm and invalidates any numerics put in place to pace the game. It artificially inflates DPS formulas (if you have to account for DPS with a dedicated healer, then it's nigh-impossible to balance both with it and without it) and sacrifices decision density in-game (harass-style decisions become invalid).
Alright, I guess that makes sense. I dunno how familiar you are with TF2, but in reality the Medic was designed specifically to PREVENT harass/turtle style gameplay from being dominant, and instead force the game to be played aggressively (in the form of well-timed 8-second Kayle ults or assassinating the Medic).

It's actually not harmful for TF2, it does exactly what it's supposed to do. But if dedicated healers were prominent in LoL it would have the same effect of forcing the other team to play aggressively or have all their poke go to waste, and that WOULD be harmful for LoL. Thus the comparison is (surprisingly) a good one.


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mertatron

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
You're right on this Dryad - which is why I've shied away.

That being said, if this Soraka ever sees competitive play, because of the above issues, we'd likely make sure it stops. I think that feels really bad overall, and is the situation we're stuck in.

We can leave Soraka alone, as long as players are willing to let her be marginalized to do so.
well I love soraka too .. that's the first main character I had and that's the only champion whom I'v bought all her skins without hesitation ^^

but right now even if I love her ... i just can't play her anymore coz I hate feeling weak during teamfight and feeling weak and countered vs so many other supports

Yes I can win trades win games with her ... I'm good with her ... but I feel so much more usefull with other supports .. and to me .. if we don't change her a bit ... she'll just get forgotten ...

better change than stick to it !!


you know .. in evolution .. only animals that evolves survive .. soraka need to evolve to survive.


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Albiros

Senior Member

09-10-2013

I'd like if Soraka's ult was changed. Currently it's really distracting to keep an eye on every team mates health bars every few seconds and even if one is about to die you feel the pressure to use it. It's not really worth using it unless you know what situation the player needing the heal is (you wouldn't wanna use it if you know he's gonna die no matter what).
It's good in the laning phase if every laner has lost some health as ''random'' heal. I don't get the feeling of saving anybody when she just heal them when they all are out of combat and you just provide some health so they can stay a bit longer.

Though it has a great potential later in the game when damage is done to all of the allies in team fights.

I think an aoe healing would be a better heal for her, maybe even add something nice to it to conpensate the global range loss. Would also reduce the hate against Soraka. ''SORAKA WHY DON'T YOU ULT RVER?!?'' Yells the top lane.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Scyphozoa View Post
Alright, I guess that makes sense. I dunno how familiar you are with TF2, but in reality the Medic was designed specifically to PREVENT harass/turtle style gameplay from being dominant, and instead force the game to be played aggressively (in the form of well-timed 8-second Kayle ults or assassinating the Medic).

It's actually not harmful for TF2, it does exactly what it's supposed to do. But if dedicated healers were prominent in LoL it would have the same effect of forcing the other team to play aggressively or have all their poke go to waste, and that WOULD be harmful for LoL. Thus the comparison is (surprisingly) a good one.
The problem with medics in TF2 is not necessarily that they heal-- it's that they do so rather boringly.

You're standing there holding a button, and that's pretty much your main and only value.

That's perhaps easier to mitigate in League.


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Clæs

Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyMemory View Post
This is literally the opposite of what Morello wants to achieve. You should feel good about saving someone's life with a huge heal at the right moment...not just making sure they're always at high health but being worthless when they're actually attacked. To make it worse you want it to sustain more when out of combat when no one technically needs it.
You're totally right about me missing the point Morello was making about what healers want to do. The lower when in combat thing was just an idea (I believe I said perhaps and if I didn't sorry). I was thinking of ways of delivering the "I am the healer" idea of Soraka's character, hp/5 was an idea I hadn't seen, but I suppose there must have been a reason for that.


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Tolinar

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albiros View Post
I'd like if Soraka's ult was changed. Currently it's really distracting to keep an eye on every team mates health bars every few seconds and even if one is about to die you feel the pressure to use it. It's not really worth using it unless you know what situation the player needing the heal is (you wouldn't wanna use it if you know he's gonna die no matter what).
It's good in the laning phase if every laner has lost some health as ''random'' heal. I don't get the feeling of saving anybody when you just heal them when they all are out of combat and you just provide some health so they can stay a bit longer.

Though it has a great potential later in the game when damage is done to all of the allies in team fights.

I think an aoe healing would be a better heal for her, maybe even add something nice to it to conpensate the global range loss. Would also reduce the hate against Soraka. ''SORAKA WHY DON'T YOU ULT RVER?!?'' Yells the top lane.
I disagree, I think the global heal is a useful and interesting skill. It adds a great dimension for players with high awareness and situational understanding - a premium in support players. No sense wishing on someone who is doomed to die - but a well timed Wish can turn a fight around.


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Boyahda

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
A "niche" could be a guy with one skill that takes 7 seconds to cast and globally stuns all champions for 10 seconds. He'd be really unique, and really terrible for the game.
Didn't TF have something like that many moons go?


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Elewd

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Very doable if we take this direction - though I think this is what defines Soraka to players as well.
could always combine her Current Heal with her Infuse and give her a new in entirely, and nerf the heal/mana giving. and let it keep its current cooldown or something. She just feels like she is Missing something from her kit at the moment.

We want her to be a defensive support and what not, what about giving her a new E that disarms a person so they can't autoattack for .5seconds to 1.5 seconds?