Let's talk about Soraka

First Riot Post
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Morello

Lead Designer

09-10-2013
10 of 18 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaddar View Post
My point is, just dont sacrifice the identity and psicological satisfaction behind playing a champion in exchange of "making it work within the mechanics of the game"

mechanics are just that, mechanics... landing a skillshot is fun.. but it something that can easily be applied into the game... but identity, on the other hand (and the satisfaction behind playing a fantastic character) is WAY HARDER to come by.

if landing skillshots is fun, Ezreal should be the most fun champion on League of Legends.. and I think it's not the case. People who follow Ezreal do so because both the playstile/utility and the fantasy behind playing him.

you can polish or fix a champion as long as you don't take away the identity and the feeling of playing it.

For example, Lee sin is considered fun and appealing overall... I just dont like his playstyle and his personality don't appeal much to me.

mechanics can be fun, identity can be fun.. but I'd not sacrifice identity in favor of mechanics, because people follow LoL the characters and their fantasies... while the mechanics can be found in any other MOBA.
This is the risk here, exactly. I think, though, the fantasy Soraka wants to fulfill is incompatable with the mechanics we can add to League.

This means;

Soraka can have that identity changed, or

Soraka can be marginalized, power-wise.


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StationaryObject

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
It's probably a bit like ganking Thresh and Janna.

Maybe ganks shouldn't be nearly the only source of aggression in a lane?
I guess you can say so, but Janna has CC as does Thresh. These CC's are what cause the ganks to fail and they are all skill shots [save for the ultimates.] You can screw up a skill shot. It's pretty hard to screw up a on-target ability.
Soraka doesn't have a CC at all [unless you count silence as a 'cc'.]

Again, I have no problem for giving Soraka a 'cleanse' ability, but only if it's on her ultimate or replaces her ultimate. That's the only way I can see it being balanced other than destroying cleanse into a weaker aspect that just makes Soraka even weaker.

I'd rather see her get some form of CC rather than another 'fix it' ability.


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KevinDelMarr

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyMemory View Post
How do you stop the self cast? Walking through the beam to stop it is an idea I like, but this ability could never be self cast. Maybe it could latch onto an enemy champion like Karma's heal, but self cast removes the main counterplay option.
I wanted to retain the self cast like Live but I felt like with the higher optimal stats she shouldn't heal as much. I nerfed her self healing to encourage healing allies over herself, it's beneficial to self cast for the survivability, but it's not as strong as before. It works on self like before, but the heal isn't as strong (armor buff still lasts 4-5 seconds on Soraka)

If you want the clutch super heal then you need to Ult. I wanted a healthy burst heal but higher optimal heal. I can easily buff the burst heal and reduce the duration to 5 seconds or so to retain the clutch heal, but my goal is to increase the counterplay while still retaining the dedicated healer aspect.

Realize my optimal Heal isn't much stronger than live, you get 0.05 more AP ratio and 10 base. I can tweak numbers but I want my general concept to stay intact. I want the enemy to be able to do something about the heal, not go "Oh well, the enemy just healed for 200+ health and my auto attacks do nothing".


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PodunkTheMighty

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Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by StationaryObject View Post
Still, a 20 second cooldown cleanse is too powerful. I don't care if it heals or doesn't heal. A full cleanse should NOT be something you can do every twenty or so seconds.

Make it her ultimate and I'd be fine with that. Cleanses are too powerful to be readily available multiple times in a fight. One clutch cleanse is a great idea.
It's interesting how I make a comment about how a Cleanse ability would make a cool support and everyone tries to apply it to Soraka's kit. I think there are some good ideas though.
My main exception is with the last paragraph though. Flash is 'too powerful' an ability to be on a low cooldown and yet we have Ezreal and Kassadin successfully balanced around it. I think done correctly a cleanse wouldn't be out of the question. It does provide a much safer laning phase, but in the teamfight phase it wouldn't have the same impact. If the kit surrounding it supported it in a fun and meaningful way without being overpowered I think it would be cool.


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namielise

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
This is the risk here, exactly. I think, though, the fantasy Soraka wants to fulfill is incompatable with the mechanics we can add to League.

This means;

Soraka can have that identity changed, or

Soraka can be marginalized, power-wise.
people who really love soraka (like i do) will vote for changing the identity otherwise we won't even be able to play her (try to pick soraka in a ranked game)


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BrawL H4ckerv2

Senior Member

09-10-2013

She needs a slow in my opinion.


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Morello

Lead Designer

09-10-2013
11 of 18 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Scyphozoa View Post
I don't see what "harm" it does to those games. Is it just because having a healer is mandatory? Having a healing class be mandatory in a game that only has a handful of classes to choose from isn't bad. It would be bad for LoL because there are supposed to be 115 champions to choose from, but options in WoW and TF2 are already limited by the number of classes that even exist.
Because it basically violates the entire combat paradigm and invalidates any numerics put in place to pace the game. It artificially inflates DPS formulas (if you have to account for DPS with a dedicated healer, then it's nigh-impossible to balance both with it and without it) and sacrifices decision density in-game (harass-style decisions become invalid).

This all comes with one benefit; you get to put a healer in the game. Now, I think that benefit has a big gain on a creative sense - fantasy fulfullment is high, familiarity exists and people who like healers or tons of option breadth favor it. However, mechanically, it's all costs and no gain.

In League, it's important that good decision density and counter-play exist. A dedicate healer that would feel like the healer people want cannot live in that space.


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CoffeeDave

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by StationaryObject View Post
I guess you can say so, but Janna has CC as does Thresh. These CC's are what cause the ganks to fail and they are all skill shots [save for the ultimates.] You can screw up a skill shot. It's pretty hard to screw up a on-target ability.
Soraka doesn't have a CC at all [unless you count silence as a 'cc'.]

Again, I have no problem for giving Soraka a 'cleanse' ability, but only if it's on her ultimate or replaces her ultimate. That's the only way I can see it being balanced other than destroying cleanse into a weaker aspect that just makes Soraka even weaker.

I'd rather see her get some form of CC rather than another 'fix it' ability.
What about having the cleanse (or the 'Santuary' idea I proposed earlier) could be an alternate effect to a spell in a similar faction to her 'E' ability. You hit her alt and you can click on herself for the normal Wish, or you can click on her ally for the Alternate effect (in this case cleanse).


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Elewd

Senior Member

09-10-2013

wow i never realized how much of a rut soraka really is, i always talk with friends how they should buff her, but then i read this thread and im like... wait that would just make botlane the most boring thing ever then....

I just hope everyone realizes that her ulti and starcall should stay regardless of any change since they are part of her identity. i would be fine with a combination of her current E and W , so like combine them so if cast on an ally they get % health back and mana, but if cast on an enemy they take damage and get silenced, then they could give her a New E.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
This is the risk here, exactly. I think, though, the fantasy Soraka wants to fulfill is incompatable with the mechanics we can add to League.

This means;

Soraka can have that identity changed, or

Soraka can be marginalized, power-wise.
But is a synergistic healer really incompatible with League?

Your goal here is not to make a champion which stares at health bars and pushes buttons in response-- it's to have abilities which, while they may heal, do so with an awareness of the enemy.

So here's an ability-- 'adds temporary health which is converted into real health as the ally deals damage'.

Reasonable interplay there, perhaps.

So basically: Why is it not possible to make a character who heals and buffs (with huge visibility) to defeat enemies?